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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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 Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:39 am |
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History of Irrigation In Our Fair State
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:31 am |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | Aside from being a reliable source of food and income, |
This is where the facts and your opinion diverge. Prior to irrigation yields were highly variable due variations in weather. Crop failures were common enough that homesteaders abandoned many farms.
The population of native americans supported by salmon was tiny.
Returning to the stone age might make a good premise for a fantasy novel.
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JVesquire
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Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 993 | TRs | Pics
Location: Pasco, WA |
You can read all about the Icicle Work Group here:
http://www.co.chelan.wa.us/natural-resources/pages/icicle-work-group?parent=Planning
I know that ALPS and others aren't participating for some reason, which I can't quite recall. At any rate, I would say that there is some disagreement as to what the need for increased storage at Eightmile or the entire watershed actually is. I doubt it is solely for farming, but that's a nice PR move since who doesn't like farmers? The Icicle docs show it is also for development. Beyond that, I don't know much about it.
Easy way to start a fight--talk about water rights in the West!
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:33 pm |
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| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | Dry land farming and health salmon runs are far more desirable than higher irrigated crop yields. |
Lower yields also subject to the vagaries of weather, taking us back to preindustrial reliability for agriculture, is 'more desirable'?
I guess this does dovetail with your desire for fewer humans.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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RodF
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Joined: 01 Sep 2007
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Location: Sequim WA |
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RodF
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Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:46 pm |
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| Schroder wrote: | | These dams were not built for irrigation purposes. They were built to provide water at the correct temperature in the Spring for the Leavenworth fish hatchery. |
Schroder, HitTheTrail and JVesquire, THANK YOU for relevant, knowledgeable and informative answers and photos that are actually on topic. Greatly appreciated. 
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
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Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:49 pm |
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| JVesquire wrote: | | You can read all about the Icicle Work Group here:
http://www.co.chelan.wa.us/natural-resources/pages/icicle-work-group?parent=Planning
I know that ALPS and others aren't participating for some reason, which I can't quite recall. At any rate, I would say that there is some disagreement as to what the need for increased storage at Eightmile or the entire watershed actually is. I doubt it is solely for farming, but that's a nice PR move since who doesn't like farmers? The Icicle docs show it is also for development. Beyond that, I don't know much about it.
Easy way to start a fight--talk about water rights in the West! |
Well you've certainly taken the fun out of the thread, now posters will have to argue about facts rather than suppositions.
Anyway, as I was peripherally involved with the Icicle Work Group, here are a few of the main points.
It involves a half dozen natural alpine lakes: Eightmile, Lower Klonaqua, Colchuck, Lower Snow, Nada, and Square. Most of the infrastructure at the lakes was originally built to increase storage capacity of lakes and provide limited (manual) flow control from lakes for irrigation purposes, although some (mainly at Snow and Nada) was built for the hatchery, which came along later and which is funded by the PUDs who have dams on the Columbia as mitigation for salmon migration disruption.
The main water rights owners are: Icicle-Pashastin irrigation district (IPID), Cascade orchard irrigation district (COID), hatchery, city of Leavenworth.
Re MG's Aynal hissy fit: although the lakes are now in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness, the ability of the water rights owners to access their infrastructure for repair or replacement via motoized equipment is grandfathered in (hence the helipad some of you may have noticed at Colchuck).
During some low snowpack years the summer flow is less than the allotments so in some cases water has had to be rationed by cutting off irrigation early, etc. This, along with projected development in Leavenworth area lead to formation of the working group. Projected fixes include upgrading infrastructure at lakes to provide more storage, a whiskey distillery, and upgrading efficiency of distribution system. Re the latter: much of the irrigation system distribution infrastructure and operations are very inefficient: open unlined ditches, watering via sprinklers in daytime, etc. Somebody did a rough calculation showing that Israeli orchardists grow the same crops with about 1/3 of the water. Also, the majority of users are residential who use it for lawns in what, as TS has noted, is a semi-desert, precip wise. In particular, there are no, and apparently never were any, orchards in the ironically-named COID; just residential and a half dozen or so horse farms.
Re OP: This warning is basically a godsend for IPID. The projected cost of the proposed dam upgrade at Eightmile was about $1.5m. Now they will be able to hit up state or FEMA to pay for it. Because the dam has been partially eroded over the years the present high water level at the lake is only a couple feet above the original natural level. So if the rest of the dam washes out we are talking a hundred-plus acre-feet; not exactly the Leavenworth version of the Johnstown Flood.
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
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JVesquire
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Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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Location: Pasco, WA |
In case it wasn't clear, I'm totally opposed to this dam and any replacement or improvement of it because it's in wilderness. But, I agree with Rod, it's nice to debate facts.
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thunderhead
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Dam was there before the wilderness. And since the dam hardly disrupts the environment it should stay. This aint exactly a clearcut or a copper mine. Its a lake, made a bit larger.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:30 pm |
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Just one item to mention as I get the feeling that not all are familiar with irrigation. There is domestic water which is what is in homes and businesses. We called it house or city water. Irrigation water is not treated and is on a different system. It is cheaper to use than the city water so if one is lucky enough to have it is used to water outdoors with.
The irrigation water is shut off in the fall and turned on in the spring when the pipes and pumps will not freeze.
Orchardists who lack wind machines will turn on their sprinklers if a cold night hits around blossom time. The ice that forms on the trees actually protects the buds from the cold I don't know if they have to do that in Israel. I doubt it.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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JVesquire
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Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 993 | TRs | Pics
Location: Pasco, WA |
Not sure that's totally accurate. Kennewick is supplied by the Kennewick Irrigation District, for example, which was originally agricultural irrigation but now mostly serves development.
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FiveNines
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Eightmile Lake is in Wenatchee River watershed. All the irrigation canals in Wenatchee watershed are dry through winter. Still dry now. Until the water gets turned on, you couldn't drink the untreated water, even if you wanted. Not sure about Kennewick, though. Is that in Wenatchee River watershed? I thought that was by Yakima/Columbia confluence?
Seems like most land owners in Wenatchee Valley have irrigation rights. Compared to anywhere else I've lived, irrigation water is priced so low, it's free. Many people treat it that way. Lots of day time, sprinkler head watering of residential lawns and grazing fields. It looks super wasteful, especially in desert climate. Don't know enough about orchard water practices to comment on their business.
I understand you do not like the dam because it is in the wilderness. What would you have liked to see happen when the wilderness was designated? Exclude the lake, and access for maintenance, from wilderness boundary? Dismantle the dam prior to designation? Abandon dam and let nature take its course? Something I cannot think of?
I would be in favor of constructing a replica dam in Leavenworth, pretending it's the same structure as the original dam, then chopper it into place.
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
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Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:29 pm |
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| thunderhead wrote: | | Dam was there before the wilderness. And since the dam hardly disrupts the environment it should stay. This aint exactly a clearcut or a copper mine. Its a lake, made a bit larger. |
Why don't you read the report before making comments? The proposals are about upgrading the dams and increasing storage. There is no discussion about removing any of the dams.
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:59 am |
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| JVesquire wrote: | | Not sure that's totally accurate. Kennewick is supplied by the Kennewick Irrigation District, for example, which was originally agricultural irrigation but now mostly serves development. |
If it is domestic use, then it would be treated and no longer just irrigation water.
When I lived in Palisades, we did not have a well and had dirty irrigation water in our house. We hauled water in jugs for drinking. The irrigation water left dirt in the toilet tanks and had a lot of "stuff" in it. It was on all winter but turned off when the water rose up to flood level because it was full of mud. It wasn't a pleasant way to live. The Palisades irrigation was piped from Douglas Creek.
From what I remember, members of the Palisades irrigation district were allotted a certain amount for agriculture. You couldn't water your hayfield whenever you wanted because you were assigned a certain amount to use and the irrigation guy would come and turn it on or off. It ran into a large concrete "waterbox" and the amount of water was measured by how much was running over the "head" or cut out opening that water ran over in the box and then into your pipes and pump. Our house and others that used the irrigation water for domestic and lawn watering were not regulated that way and the water did not go through a box. We could water our yard all the time using garden hoses.
Our field irrigation was through 3 inch diameter sprinkler pipes which were changed daily when watering time occurred using kid labor. The pipes were long and heavy and I hated changing sprinklers. There were blowouts which were a pain to go back and forth to fix and you kept haywire wrapped around several sprinkler risers so you could unplug the sprinkler heads--irrigation water is full of stuff.
I'm thinking it was use or lose. If you went a certain time without using your allotment, it would go to somebody else.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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MtnGoat
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:43 am |
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| CC wrote: | | thunderhead wrote: | | Dam was there before the wilderness. And since the dam hardly disrupts the environment it should stay. This aint exactly a clearcut or a copper mine. Its a lake, made a bit larger. |
Why don't you read the report before making comments? The proposals are about upgrading the dams and increasing storage. There is no discussion about removing any of the dams. |
Because here on the board, there is discussion about removing the dams. The report is not the only source of discussion.
| NacMacFeegle wrote: | | I'd advocate removing the dam from Eightmile and the other seven reservoirs even if they did not lie within the Alpine lakes wilderness. |
| JVesquire wrote: | | In case it wasn't clear, I'm totally opposed to this dam and any replacement or improvement of it because it's in wilderness. But, I agree with Rod, it's nice to debate facts. |
If one wants to support reading the report, which is important, it would seem relevant to the thread to read comments from the thread as well.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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thunderhead
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| CC wrote: | | Why don't you read the report before making comments? The proposals are about upgrading the dams and increasing storage. There is no discussion about removing any of the dams. |
Perhaps you should read the thread before commenting? There is plenty of that discussion, right here.
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