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Token Civilian
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Randito
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Randito
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 Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:14 am |
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Sounds like a great opportunity to get needed repairs using federal disaster/ fire fighting funds -- instead of figuring out a way to collect water usage fees from the users.
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sooperfly
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Ringangleclaw
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| RandyHiker wrote: | | Sounds like a great opportunity to get needed repairs using federal disaster/ fire fighting funds -- instead of figuring out a way to collect water usage fees from the users. |
I know right. Ignore something long enough and hopefully Santa, the Easter Bunny or Federal Welfare will help save your butt.
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HitTheTrail
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Joined: 30 Oct 2007
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This from today's Wenatchee paper:
Remote sensors next step for troubled Eightmile dam
by Jefferson Robbins April 16, 2018, 4:07 p.m.
CASHMERE — Managers of the Eightmile Lake dam hope to install sensors next month that would give them early warning of any overflow or failure — a possibility that’s led them to expedite plans for the aging dam’s replacement.
The board of the Icicle and Peshastin Irrigation District voted last month to declare an emergency at the dam in the high Enchantment Lakes, which collects water for irrigators throughout the Upper Wenatchee Valley. District manager Tony Jantzer said Monday he’ll work in early May to install remote monitors to keep an eye on waterflow and lake levels, and the district will soon sign a $380,000 contract for new dam designs and permitting.
The lake was about 20 feet below full level last week, Jantzer said, and clearing weather next month would allow workers to install monitoring, clear blockage from the historic dam’s outflow, and commence other work ahead of a hoped-for full replacement of the dam this year.
“Our biggest problem right now is the early-warning setup,” Jantzer said. “If we have a big thunderclapper up there, we could lose that lake, and there are a lot of guys the county has allowed to build right up against Icicle Creek, or in the middle of Icicle Creek, or even the (Leavenworth National) Fish Hatchery, that could be in danger.”
The concrete and earthwork dam has controlled Eightmile Creek since its construction in 1933, more than 40 years before the Alpine Lakes Wilderness where it sits was designated as protected national land. The reservoir water is channeled to 3,000 agricultural customers between Monitor and Leavenworth.
The earth component of dam has suffered erosion over time, and the outflow is too small to control water levels if they reach higher-than-normal levels, Jantzer said. Last year’s Jack Creek Fire burned up from the lake, raising fears of increased erosion and runoff this year. That led the district to declare an emergency, which allows a quicker bidding process on replacement and requires Chelan County to draft emergency management plans in case the dam should fail.
The district’s first contract, with the national engineering firm Anchor QEA, should be approved by the board next week, Jantzer said. It designates Anchor as designer and gives it responsibility for acquiring permits from U.S. Forest Service, which governs the wilderness, and related agencies.
“They have started work already without the contract being signed, because they know that time is of the essence,” Jantzer said.
Reach Jefferson Robbins at 509-664-7123 or robbins@wenatcheeworld.com. Follow him on Twitter at @JRobbinsWW. Contact him securely by PGP key.
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RodF
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RodF
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:45 am |
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Some history.
| US Bureau of Reclamation wrote: | | When Grand Coulee Dam was constructed by Reclamation, the hydrology of the Columbia River was altered and fish passage above the dam was eliminated. Mitigation for the impact of Grand Coulee Dam on fisheries included the construction of Leavenworth Fisheries Complex (Complex). The Complex consists of three National Fish Hatcheries: Leavenworth, Entiat, and Winthrop National Fish Hatcheries. LNFH construction started in 1938 for the purpose of propagating and helping restore native salmon runs in the Columbia River system. Icicle Creek runs adjacent to LNFH and the water from this creek is diverted for salmon holding and rearing ponds. To assure adequate water supply for the Icicle Creek historical channel and LNFH, as well as water for pre-existing irrigation uses, a supplementary water supply, (approximately 16,000 acre-feet) was needed (Reclamation 1941).
Without the water release of approximately 50 cfs from the Snow/Nada Lake Supplementation Reservoirs in August and September, the downstream reaches of Icicle Creek could go dry in some years (Skalicky et al. 2013). |
The pre-existing Eightmile dam is tied into this system and supplements the late-summer minimum in-stream flow for fisheries.
| Ringangleclaw wrote: | | RandyHiker wrote: | | Sounds like a great opportunity to get needed repairs using federal disaster/ fire fighting funds -- instead of figuring out a way to collect water usage fees from the users. |
I know right. Ignore something long enough and hopefully Santa, the Easter Bunny or Federal Welfare will help save your butt. |
I checked the Washington State Auditors Office Accountability Reports for Icicle and Peschastin Irrigation Districts, and it appears to me they are already paying water rates several times higher than other private (non-Federally subsidized) irrigation districts. (In full disclosure, I'm a small shareholder in one in Sequim.) Their water costs are about $87 per acre per year. This is largely because the terrain there makes maintenance very labor-intensive, i.e. expensive. That's equivalent to roughly a 10 to 15% tax on the wholesale value of their crops. Any further increase in their water rates would make agriculture there economically non-viable relative to trucking hay or grain from agricultural lands supplied by Federal water.
It's also clear from their overall system stats (water rights, acres) that they're operating efficiently, and meeting current state Dept. of Ecology water conservation standards.
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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Ringangleclaw
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| RodF wrote: | | Ringangleclaw wrote: | | RandyHiker wrote: | | Sounds like a great opportunity to get needed repairs using federal disaster/ fire fighting funds -- instead of figuring out a way to collect water usage fees from the users. |
I know right. Ignore something long enough and hopefully Santa, the Easter Bunny or Federal Welfare will help save your butt. |
I checked the Washington State Auditors Office Accountability Reports for Icicle and Peschastin Irrigation Districts, and it appears to me they are already paying water rates several times higher than other private (non-Federally subsidized) irrigation districts. (In full disclosure, I'm a small shareholder in one in Sequim.) Their water costs are about $87 per acre per year. This is largely because the terrain there makes maintenance very labor-intensive, i.e. expensive. That's equivalent to roughly a 10 to 15% tax on the wholesale value of their crops. Any further increase in their water rates would make agriculture there economically non-viable relative to trucking hay or grain from agricultural lands supplied by Federal water.
It's also clear from their overall system stats (water rights, acres) that they're operating efficiently, and meeting current state Dept. of Ecology water conservation standards. |
That doesn't really change the fact that they have defered maintainence for years, if not decades, and the fire disaster money has been a boon for them and quite literally pulled their feet from the fire. On this board there is often a decry against the federal subsides that logging, fossil fuel extraction and grazing recieve.
The partners and the management of the irrigation system put their heads in the sand, held on and hoped for the best while they ignored the obvious. Thank god for this fire the the federal money that is following, which yet again let them ignore the basic facts.
| Quote: | | The dam was originally constructed in the late 1920’s and is in poor condition. The districts have been contemplating the repair/replacement of the dam for some time but due to many factors have not made major repairs to the dam |
http://www.ncwlife.com/icicle-peshastin-irrigation-district-declares-dam-emergency/
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RodF
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RodF
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:45 am |
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| Ringangleclaw wrote: | | That doesn't really change the fact that they have defered maintainence for years, if not decades... |
The barrier to maintenance is the USFS compliance (i.e. paperwork, staff time) necessary to maintain any permanent structure within Wilderness is forever deferred until there's an emergency. "They" is USFS and US Bureau of Reclamation, not the Irrigation District.
Ring', you've made up your mind based on ideology, and I don't expect facts to change it. You're apparently qualified to be President.
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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Stefan
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Stefan
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Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:30 pm |
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Questionado. I am no engineer. But I have seen some documentaries recently talking about bridges. The contract says to build the bridge that will last 60 years..80 years...100 years.
So how long is the Grand Coulee Dam supposed to last before they take it down and build a new one?
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FiveNines
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I tried to google that for you, but could not find good answer in 30sec, so I gave up.
I found an interesting article speculating on how long structures would be recognizable if abandoned. Grand Coulee is the last reviewed in linked text.
| Quote: | | The pillars (Gateway Arch) might stand for another 5,000 years.
That's a long time, but Grand Coulee Dam on the Columbia River would be around even longer. This monolith of eastern Washington State has the durability that only 24 million tons of concrete can give. Major parts would survive until the next Ice Age. Glaciers would destroy it, but not in the way you might expect. |
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug02/barnes/grandcoulee/chiles.html
I have no idea, but will venture with routine maintenance and no glacial lake outburst flooding it is reasonable to expect to keep the lights on for 1000 years or more before replacement. Long enuff not to think about it? Interesting question.
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Randito
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Randito
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Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:39 am |
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FWIW: Caesarea is a Roman built city on the Mediterranean with an artificial harbor constructed of unreinforced concrete 2000 years ago. Much of the artificial harbor still stands.
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
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Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:27 pm |
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| thunderhead wrote: | | CC wrote: | | Why don't you read the report before making comments? The proposals are about upgrading the dams and increasing storage. There is no discussion about removing any of the dams. |
Perhaps you should read the thread before commenting? There is plenty of that discussion, right here. |
I was obviously (I thought) referring to discussion within the IWG. Given the water rights, and the influence of orchardists in the Chelan County and state governments, there is zero possibility of dam removal in the foreseeable future.
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
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Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:50 pm |
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| HitTheTrail wrote: | | This from today's Wenatchee paper:
Remote sensors next step for troubled Eightmile dam
by Jefferson Robbins April 16, 2018, 4:07 p.m.
CASHMERE — Managers of the Eightmile Lake dam hope to install sensors next month that would give them early warning of any overflow or failure — a possibility that’s led them to expedite plans for the aging dam’s replacement.
The board of the Icicle and Peshastin Irrigation District voted last month to declare an emergency at the dam in the high Enchantment Lakes, which collects water for irrigators throughout the Upper Wenatchee Valley. District manager Tony Jantzer said Monday he’ll work in early May to install remote monitors to keep an eye on waterflow and lake levels, and the district will soon sign a $380,000 contract for new dam designs and permitting.
The lake was about 20 feet below full level last week, Jantzer said, and clearing weather next month would allow workers to install monitoring, clear blockage from the historic dam’s outflow, and commence other work ahead of a hoped-for full replacement of the dam this year.
“Our biggest problem right now is the early-warning setup,” Jantzer said. “If we have a big thunderclapper up there, we could lose that lake, and there are a lot of guys the county has allowed to build right up against Icicle Creek, or in the middle of Icicle Creek, or even the (Leavenworth National) Fish Hatchery, that could be in danger.”
The concrete and earthwork dam has controlled Eightmile Creek since its construction in 1933, more than 40 years before the Alpine Lakes Wilderness where it sits was designated as protected national land. The reservoir water is channeled to 3,000 agricultural customers between Monitor and Leavenworth.
The earth component of dam has suffered erosion over time, and the outflow is too small to control water levels if they reach higher-than-normal levels, Jantzer said. Last year’s Jack Creek Fire burned up from the lake, raising fears of increased erosion and runoff this year. That led the district to declare an emergency, which allows a quicker bidding process on replacement and requires Chelan County to draft emergency management plans in case the dam should fail.
The district’s first contract, with the national engineering firm Anchor QEA, should be approved by the board next week, Jantzer said. It designates Anchor as designer and gives it responsibility for acquiring permits from U.S. Forest Service, which governs the wilderness, and related agencies.
“They have started work already without the contract being signed, because they know that time is of the essence,” Jantzer said.
Reach Jefferson Robbins at 509-664-7123 or robbins@wenatcheeworld.com. Follow him on Twitter at @JRobbinsWW. Contact him securely by PGP key. |
Jantzer is doing a lot of puffing here. They are not going to "lose that lake." It is a natural lake. Given the partially eroded dam, the present high-water level of the lake is 7' below the original dam level, and only about 4' above the natural level. So even in worst case scenario, i.e., rest of dam erodes, the lake will still be there. Like I said, it wouldn't be the Johnstown flood. The guy that lives "in the middle of Icicle Creek" should probably be worried though.
Unless he is counting growing a lawn as agriculture, "3000 agricultural users" is baloney. IPID irrigates 4263 acres. Which means there would have to be be 3000 orchards between Leavenworth and Monitor that averaged 1.4 acres each. Ridiculous. The majority of IPID users, as well as all of the COIC users, are residential.
Preliminary design work on dam rebuilding was already done as part of IWG, funded by Dept of Ecology. Jantzer has told Leavenworth paper he is expecting to get state funding for rebuild. IPID will probably try for `Cadillac ($3.9M) version rather than $1.5M version. Incidently, Jantzen is getting paid $25k/year by Ecology for participating in IWG.
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
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Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:19 pm |
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| RodF wrote: | | I checked the Washington State Auditors Office Accountability Reports for Icicle and Peschastin Irrigation Districts, and it appears to me they are already paying water rates several times higher than other private (non-Federally subsidized) irrigation districts. (In full disclosure, I'm a small shareholder in one in Sequim.) Their water costs are about $87 per acre per year. This is largely because the terrain there makes maintenance very labor-intensive, i.e. expensive. That's equivalent to roughly a 10 to 15% tax on the wholesale value of their crops. Any further increase in their water rates would make agriculture there economically non-viable relative to trucking hay or grain from agricultural lands supplied by Federal water.
It's also clear from their overall system stats (water rights, acres) that they're operating efficiently, and meeting current state Dept. of Ecology water conservation standards. |
The only agriculture in IPID area is orchards. The average orchard size is 30 acres. So their water cost is pretty much trivial re their other opex.
As far as efficiency: maybe they are efficient by early 20th century standards, but by current standards (see previous post in thread Israeli growers) they are ridiculously inefficient. Charging by acre instead of by water use invites inefficiency.
| RodF wrote: | | The barrier to maintenance is the USFS compliance (i.e. paperwork, staff time) necessary to maintain any permanent structure within Wilderness is forever deferred until there's an emergency. "They" is USFS and US Bureau of Reclamation, not the Irrigation District. |
Not in this case. Erosion of dam happened so long ago nobody in IPID knows when it happened. Presumably that means it happened before wilderness. IPID never applied for any permits. They basically have done no maintenance on Eightmile. See photos in IWG. Their whole infrastructure is still pretty much early 20th century except for some minor upgrades like lining some of their ditches. You can't blame their costs on high maintenance.
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
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RodF
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RodF
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Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:07 pm |
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| CC wrote: | | IPID irrigates 4263 acres... You can't blame their costs on high maintenance. |
CC, although Icicle and Peschastin Irrigation Districts are two separate legal entities, they have been sharing water and maintenance costs since the 1920s, and operate as one district.
| Cashmere Valley Record newspaper wrote: | | In the 8,000 or so acres of the Icicle and Peshastin districts, the irrigation water is mostly gravity fed, but the ditches and pipes are on steep hillsides, so a broken pipe or washed out ditch at the wrong time would be the equivalent catastrophe.
"It's scary to see all the hillside canals. It's a unique problem. It could be expensive if something happens. It's treacherous-type stuff. Not a lot of oopsey could cause a big problem," he said.
The steep terrain helps explains the budget for five year-round employees, five seasonal beat riders and another 10 or so temporary employees who help with maintenance in the spring and fall, Jantzer said.
"Most other districts use equipment for maintenance and repairs," he said. "But here, you can't get that equipment on the ditch banks. It must all be cleaned by hand with shovels. That's a lot of man hours." |
| CC wrote: | | The majority of IPID users, as well as all of the COIC users, are residential. |
That may be true. State water law extend irrigation water rights to domestic (non-commercial) gardens and orchards up to 1 acre in size or for watering livestock.
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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