Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > *
 Reply to topic
Previous :: Next Topic
Author Message
Guest





Guest
PostFri Apr 05, 2019 8:33 am 

Back to top Reply to topic View IP address of poster
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 1877 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 3:17 pm 
Doppelganger wrote:
why do they propose logging 600 acres to access a 79 acre project?

Probably to accommodate all the other onsite activities that they list on page 5 of their SEPA environmental checklist, and other assorted elbow-room issues not listed:

Quote:
• Providing for an approximately 5-acre armor stone staging area in the western portion of P45543;
• Constructing a gravel area with 35 parking spaces;
• Providing a scale control shed and a 70-ton portable scale;
• Providing a maintenance facility, a lubrication storage unit, a spill response Connex, a tool storage facility;
• Providing three ANFO and emulsion trailers and two high explosive magazine storage buildings;
• Providing an off-road diesel tank, a highway diesel tank, and a gasoline tank;
• Providing an office structure;
• Providing an approximately 13-acre undersized rock stockpile area within the existing MRO area on P128574;
• Implementing rock quarrying within the existing MRO using a “top down” approach such that rock would not be cast off the cliff face;
• Transporting quarry rock on-site to the stockpile or staging areas by truck;

Since the time for commenting on this project has passed, it's doubtful that anything can be done at this point to propose changes.

I have considerable past experience fighting quarry projects.  For a time I was on the board of the Stillaguamish Citizens' Alliance and one of their grant writers when they were fighting the Associated Sand & Gravel project proposal alongside the Stillaguamish River on the Mt. Loop Highway, back in the 90's.  We fought them for seven years. The course of how things went opened my eyes to truth about the "regulatory process",  which for the most part, is designed to regulate those who object.  You may win a few battles and get a few concessions, but likely lose the war.  That would be especially true in this case, since a quarry already exists on the site,  the county likely wants the project to go, and many of the county residents do too, given the need for jobs up there.

No doubt if an astute technician combed through all the project documents, they would find many discrepancies and assertions to contest, which might have provided a basis for insisting on more mitigation than the company is proposing.

Lastly, from some comments in the documents, it appears that the company is positioning itself to provide this rock product for a number of projects up & down the coast, although the Columbia project is maybe the largest. Getting their bid in before they had all the county permits suggests they didn't expect any opposition.  One surprising thing is that the company plans to truck all the material down to the Columbia, rather than barge it down, but I may have missed it.  My sympathies to those directly impacted.

--------------
"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Malachai Constant
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 15571 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny
Malachai Constant
Member
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 6:36 pm 
You know there is a lot of riprap already by the river. There is a reason it is called Columbia River Basalt. doh.gif

--------------
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Brushwork
Food truck



Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics
Location: Washington
Brushwork
Food truck
PostMon Apr 08, 2019 8:18 pm 
That's a long distance to truck rock.  I have a hard time thinking there isn't appropriate rock much closer.

--------------
When I grow up I wanna play.
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 10611 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue Apr 09, 2019 11:47 am 
I'm thinking that they'd barge it from the Sound.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 10611 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue Apr 09, 2019 11:59 am 
The mining operation will require the removal of 2.7 million board feet of timber from approximately 90 acres of six parcels totaling 600 acres. Stumps will be removed and the area graded in preparation for quarry operations.

They are "logging" 90 acres which is part of six parcels totaling 600 acres.  Apparently it is a bit scattered or on edges of other land parcels.  Perhaps there is a harvest plan written and in place for the rest of the parcels but it is not part of the rock pit project.  Can't tell from what is written.

Whenever you have a large, equipment driven project, you need extra acreage to process rock, load, and store and move equipment around.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
KMarks
Loves to HIke



Joined: 15 Apr 2019
Posts: 2 | TRs | Pics
Location: Rockport WA
KMarks
Loves to HIke
PostMon Apr 15, 2019 4:45 pm 
This is just not true. We have organized and had over 600 pages of complaints. We do not want the mountain blasted to bits- we want to KEEP BIG BEAR MOUNTAIN PRISTINE AND WILD-This mountain is less than a mile from the SKAGIT RIVER so if your with us then join us in writing to SKAGIT COUNTY PLANNING DEPARTMENT in the comment period- you do not  half to be a county resident to comment- Help us in asking for an Environmental Impact Statement because this is your river too. This river puts 1/3 of the fresh water into the Puget Sound. This is our water and water is life.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10217643578014973&set=gm.848997038775174&type=3&eid=ARDrn587F2_T909TtdL4kJGGUe5O95ne-DIpkaVrIxbLHR8OUOgPHnch7gFRc7RUQs-Hjgak0sDzHWF4

https://www.facebook.com/stopmarblemountquarry/photos/rpp.2159924534100647/2159924964100604/?type=3&eid=ARAb_XZjIG7mFiEDfVLLJKciGgaTjwh9k7UAZTPTIfs-GWKgU_fKaPhlRGO95JULu17pT_sbBK1-ygpI

--------------
You don't take a photograph, you make it. Ansel Adams
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 1877 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
PostMon Apr 15, 2019 6:57 pm 
I don't play on Facebook, KMarks, so can't see anything on there with respect to what your community has done up to now.  Just submitting letters during the comment period is not going to stop the project.  Likely, neither would hiring an attorney and going through the formal process of contesting any phase of the  permitting process with respect to EIS issues, unless there's something really compelling reason you can show the county not to allow expansion of what's already there.  Like some public rep of a quarry proponent in Snohomish County said, "that's where the material is".   Check out the story of SCA's fight against the Associated Quarry, below.

Sorry to be overly pessimistic, and I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but you're up against what we fought; same old story, different county; and in your case,  the quarry already exists. When it comes to the environment, I discovered local citizens have almost zero rights.  Good luck.  shakehead.gif

A Brief History of the Stillaguamish Citizens' Alliance

--------------
"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 10611 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostMon Apr 22, 2019 7:30 am 
KMarks wrote:
This is just not true. We have organized and had over 600 pages of complaints. We do not want the mountain blasted to bits- we want to KEEP BIG BEAR MOUNTAIN PRISTINE AND WILD-This mountain is less than a mile from the SKAGIT RIVER so if your with us then join us in writing to SKAGIT COUNTY PLANNING DEPARTMENT in the comment period- you do not  half to be a county resident to comment- Help us in asking for an Environmental Impact Statement because this is your river too. This river puts 1/3 of the fresh water into the Puget Sound. This is our water and water is life.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10217643578014973&set=gm.848997038775174&type=3&eid=ARDrn587F2_T909TtdL4kJGGUe5O95ne-DIpkaVrIxbLHR8OUOgPHnch7gFRc7RUQs-Hjgak0sDzHWF4

https://www.facebook.com/stopmarblemountquarry/photos/rpp.2159924534100647/2159924964100604/?type=3&eid=ARAb_XZjIG7mFiEDfVLLJKciGgaTjwh9k7UAZTPTIfs-GWKgU_fKaPhlRGO95JULu17pT_sbBK1-ygpI

I won't use bold face or shouting fonts, but why don't you start by restoring the entire Puget Sound area?  Join Friends of Seattle and work to restore that area to "pristine, old growth forest" instead?   agree.gif

Frankly, with all the population influx, King County and other environs are doomed.  But that's ok, keep encouraging your friends to move there.

With the advent of the internet, our sekrit ways were violated when ignorant people began posting photos on line that were taken on sunny days.

You posted, you encouraged, now you pay the price.  Now it's in your backyard.  Granted, the jetty would eventually need some maintenance, but where do you think that the rock for local roads comes from?  China?  Or the 2x4s for your housing?  This sounds ( I am not familiar with the area) of a case of the population expanding out into the hinterlands where the dirty work is done to support those suburbs and cities.  Kind of like buying property and building a house next to a well established noisy business and then trying to stop that business.

You can't live in a place without impacting the place.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
geyer
Member
Member


Joined: 23 May 2017
Posts: 433 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
geyer
Member
PostTue Apr 23, 2019 12:49 pm 
Doppelganger wrote:
Also note that there is no definition of the 'unique physical properties', preventing anyone from proposing alternative sites.

You needed to read the engineering reports for this information.

From the "Engineering analysis and drainage plans":

Quote:
Shuksan greenschist, the target mineral for the quarrying actions, is a member of the Easton Metamorphic suite, which also includes Darrington phyllite, a metasedimentary unit which stratigraphically overlies the Shuksan greenschist. The oceanic shale and sandstone protolith of the Darrington phyllite was deposited on top of the oceanic basalt protolith of the Shuksan greenschist, which originally formed in the Middle and Late Jurassic and was metamorphosed in the Early Cretaceous (Brown, 1987). The Shuksan greenschist is described as “a fine-grained but well-recrystallized metamorphic rock, commonly containing sodic amphiboles” (Tabor et. al, 2003).

The hydrologic assessment goes more in-depth into Shuksan Greenschist and reasons why it is ideal for jetties:

Quote:
The Shuksan Greenschist bedrock that occupies the eastern portion of the Project Area is hypothesized to essentially be an aquitard that restricts groundwater movement... For the scope of this project the Shuksan Greenschist bedrock is considered an aquitard and nearly impermeable.


If you look at this geologic map, the Shuksan greenschist isn't exactly rare, but it is mostly on the north side of the Skagit River, whereas this quarry is on the south side.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
MtnGoat
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA
MtnGoat
Member
PostTue Apr 23, 2019 1:27 pm 
Doppelganger wrote:
We see today the consequences of simply accepting 'impact'.

Yes we do. People who are in the top 1% wealth in human history, benefitting from all the impacts and trade they're not even aware of, to the point they are so well off it seems like these things just happen.

So their opposition to production or trade in things they don't think they need locally, becomes a rallying cry to stop someone from creating more wealth and trade. It's not 'needed', I'm sure, as if they can tell what people they don't even know ..want to trade for, and why.

All they really can know is what they themselves  want...and that is of course front and center.

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Dick B
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 199 | TRs | Pics
Location: Redmond, Or
Dick B
Member
PostTue Apr 23, 2019 4:04 pm 
I lived in Coos Bay, OR  in the early 60s. During that time the Corp rebuilt one of the jetties at the mouth of Coos Bay and another at the mouth of the Umpqua. The Coos rock was to be quarried just east of town, but it didn't meet specs so they went to some where around Powers which is south near the Rogue River. I remember the loads that came thru town. All the rock was hauled on flat bed semis. As I remember they could only haul like 3 rocks per load. I believe the Umpqua rock came from an island up the Columbia behind one of the dams. It was barged down the coast.
I can't believe a contractor would bid a job without knowing where the material was going to come from. The transportation costs have got to be out of this world. Hope it's not cost plus cuz my tax dollars are paying for this.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Stefan
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 4875 | TRs | Pics
Stefan
Member
PostTue Apr 23, 2019 5:40 pm 
Hello.  Dumbass here!  This rock is for a jetty at the Columbia River.  Correct?  If so, why is there a need for a new jetty?  I thought everything was fine as it was.  Please help me understand.  Thanks!

edit:
found it:
https://govtribe.com/opportunity/federal-contract-opportunity/mouth-of-the-columbia-river-mcr-south-jetty-rehabilitation-w9127n19r0007-1

I guess it is jetty repair.  Not new jetty.  Makes sense.  It is global warming.  More water=more erosion=more repair.

Aint no way no one is going to stop this mining operation.  Too much commerce going through the Columbia River mouth.  That is too important for too many jobs.

--------------
Art is an adventure.
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 1877 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
PostWed Apr 24, 2019 8:40 am 
Doppelganger wrote:
Researchers in this story propose that it could take 90-100 years to restore the Skagit as a salmon habitat. 100 years sounds like a number I saw in the Kiewit documents...

Snohomish County had  no trouble permitting a quarry in a kettle wetland where none had existed previously, and right next to the Stillaguamish.  Just sayin'.   shakehead.gif

--------------
"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Sculpin
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 1127 | TRs | Pics
Sculpin
Member
PostWed Apr 24, 2019 11:34 am 
geyer wrote:
The hydrologic assessment goes more in-depth into Shuksan Greenschist and reasons why it is ideal for jetties

I read through it because I was curious but I was unable to determine why greenschist is ideal jetty rock.  They just say that it is and that there are no other sources.   confused.gif

Shuksan Greenschist is beautiful rock for landscaping.  I have seen it cut and sold as "greenstone."   Which makes me a bit suspicious.   huh.gif

--------------
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 Reply to topic
Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > *
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy