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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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 Tue Jul 04, 2023 7:54 pm |
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 Slim, SpookyKite89  fourteen410  Anne Elk, philfort |
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Brockton
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Brockton
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Tue Jul 04, 2023 8:05 pm |
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The font looks different. Unofficial homemade sign?
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RichP
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RichP
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Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:42 am |
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People will still claim they didn't see the sign even with BIG letters.
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Kim Brown
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Could be from the USFS. those other signs were made by someone else another time. Even if homemade by someone else; it is true that the USFS doesn't want drones flying in wilderness, so it doesn't hurt.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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philfort
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philfort
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Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:55 am |
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There's been a no-drones sign (not as rustic as this one) at the Snow Lake divide for years.
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:14 am |
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| Kim Brown wrote: | | doesn't want drones flying in wilderness |
For the record, people are allowed to fly drones in Wilderness, just can't take off or land in Wilderness. What a broken law.
Anne Elk
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Kim Brown
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I know. That's why I clarified they don't want drones flown in wilderness. 
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:09 am |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | Kim Brown wrote: | | doesn't want drones flying in wilderness |
For the record, people are allowed to fly drones in Wilderness, just can't take off or land in Wilderness. What a broken law. |
Well sort of. FAA regulations also stipulate 2000ft above ground altitude over wilderness areas.
The general problem there isn't any meaningful enforcement. I've observed (and heard) commercial sized drones flying over Snow Lake doing photography for publication.
So the sign is helpful in discouraging drone usage and setting social expectations.
I don't have much expectations that LE rangers will be writing citations.
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Kim Brown
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | Kim Brown wrote: | | doesn't want drones flying in wilderness |
For the record, people are allowed to fly drones in Wilderness, just can't take off or land in Wilderness. What a broken law. |
It's not a law at all; that's the crazy thing with the Wilderness Act. To update the Act requires Congress. It's why new Wilderness Areas need an Act of Congress. The rules about wilderness are derived from lawsuits and by judges who rule on them. Once a judge rules, that precedent is adopted until another judge rules a different way.
So yeah, you're right that it is weird, but changing the actual Act for each new thing is nearly impossible. So drones in wilderness aren't written in the Act. But each agency who manages it can make rules about it.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:51 am |
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Battery technology is improving, and drones are getting lighter and more aerodynamic at the same time. Allowing them in the Wilderness means they're able to go further and stay longer as time goes on.
I guess camera improvements mean drone pilots have more reason to want to take advantage of the situation too.
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Kim Brown
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Last week, my visiting niece and I watched a guy climb up the face of Big 4 a little ways in order to retrieve a stranded drone. He had to go through some fairly complicated, precarious moves to get to it. And it was clear he was just an un-helmeted, inexperienced joe; not a climber.
After he retrieved the thing, his friends immediately flew it around the basin over and over and over again. It was annoying, noisy, and I felt invaded. This bullsh##, after my niece had just been saying how wonderful and relaxing being in the mountains is.
While not in wilderness, when in wilderness, drones are that much more annoying and actually violate a wilderness "value," which are baselines used to make rules.
Drone retrieval, if not already, will likely be a visible measurement for any SAR bar charts in the not too distant future.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
MultiUser, Anne Elk, Cyclopath
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
MultiUser, Anne Elk, Cyclopath
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Anne Elk
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Joined: 07 Sep 2018
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Anne Elk
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Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:31 pm |
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| Randito wrote: | | The general problem there isn't any meaningful enforcement. I've observed (and heard) commercial sized drones flying over Snow Lake doing photography for publication. So the sign is helpful in discouraging drone usage and setting social expectations. I don't have much expectations that LE rangers will be writing citations. |
If rangers can somehow manage to be out there checking camping permits, it seems they could find a way to get on top of at least some drone operators. Make an example of a few people and that might work as a deterrent for a while.
This article suggests some unique technology: Six ways to disable a drone Firearms are obviously out, the electronic options and anti-drone drones seem most practical (depending on proximity requirements). But the eagle option seems the most aesthetically appropriate. 
There's also the super high tech solution: Battelle Drone Defender I'd contribute to a go-fund-me to equip the FS/NPS with a few of those.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Brucester
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Joined: 02 Jun 2013
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Wait, don't drone find lost people?
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:52 pm |
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| Anne Elk wrote: | | If rangers can somehow manage to be out there checking camping permits, |
The Snow Lake mentioned in the OP is near Snoqualmie Pass. No camping is permitted in the Snow Lake Basin, one must hike well past Snow Lake to Gem and Wildcat lakes to camp out that way..
I think you were thinking of Snow Lakes near Leavenworth in the Enchantments Permit Zone.
Various anti-drone technologies are being developed, airports and professional sports venues the usual places where the multi kilobuck equipment costs and operating personnel costs are undertaken.
Drones operated in wilderness are f### annoying but don't pose the safety concerns of a drone operated near an airport or a venue with thousands of people should the drone disperse a chemical or biological weapon.
Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:11 pm |
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Drones are a marvel of technology, but that's also their Achilles heel. They rely on electronic communication with their pilot. At least the ones people are flying at Snow Lake.
| Brucester wrote: | | Wait, don't drone find lost people? |
Maybe this is why we don't do a tech solution? Analogy: speed bumps might be great for slowing street racers, but they slow ambulances and fire trucks down too.
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