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RumiDude
Marmota olympus



Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
PostTue Dec 07, 2021 10:24 am 
treeswarper wrote:
Concentrate on getting people to bury their poop and poop away from wet areas. That's a more worthy cause.
Why is it we can't do both, concentrate on getting people to bury their dodo properly as well as emphasize the need to leave the bits of nature we have left alone. The idea that none of our little engineering projects out in the wild hurts anything is just false. Our wild places are dying the death of a thousand cuts. I don't think people realise just how "lucky" we are in the western US to have this much relatively wild area to visit and recreate in. You can go all over the world and find areas which at one time were completely wild and are now completely changed because little by little the wild land was completely altered by humans. Places that used to support a wide spectrum of flora and fauna but now are relatively sterile of these species, becoming the islands of wilderness like zoos which are steadily shrinking. And yet some continue fostering the idea that it's OK to willy nilly built structures and alter things in the backcountry. Wanna build a dam to make nice swimming hole? Go dam up your local storm sewer or drainage ditch. Get a wrench and open up a fire hydrant or irrigation pipe. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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snoqpass
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snoqpass
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PostTue Dec 07, 2021 1:48 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
If a salmon can't hop over a kid built dam, the salmon is pretty lame. Ever watched them go over the dam in Tumwater Canyon? During low water flows, salmon are screwed anyway, and the
The problem is people are building these dams during the hottest time of year with the lowest flows, the water temp increases when the flow is altered and affects the survivability, the goal is to lessen the impacts and give the wildlife a better chance and as I noted earlier it's not just salmon it affects there's a variety of aquatic life in the water that can be impacted and the time of year, water levels and flow are some of the factors, different species of fish spawn at different times of the year disturbing their spawning beds (Redds) by moving rocks and gravel can affect reproduction

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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



Joined: 07 Sep 2018
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
PostSat Dec 11, 2021 3:34 pm 
Back to the cairn “problem”: When I was with my family in western NY this summer, a friend took me to Griffis Sculpture Park, 400 acres of hiking trails and meadows dotted with large metal sculptures. There was one installation that could be replicated here to good use - a designated cairn building spot. Compulsive cairn builders can practice their skills and exercise their compulsion till it’s out of their system in a safe spot where they’ll cause no harm - not littering the landscape at random nor confusing hikers who might mistake them for trail markers. A genius solution even the Angry Hiker could approve, but only in appropriate locations, like a designated area off the Mailbox Peak TH parking lot, or Ballard Commons. biggrin.gif

"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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reststep
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reststep
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PostSat Dec 11, 2021 6:44 pm 
Saw this on Tyler Peak back in 2015
Stonehenge on way to Tyler Peak
Stonehenge on way to Tyler Peak
Stonehenge on way to Tyler Peak
Stonehenge on way to Tyler Peak

"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
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kbatku
Questionable hiker



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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Location: Yaquima
kbatku
Questionable hiker
PostSun Dec 12, 2021 12:12 pm 
I tend to remove cairns when I find them but by then the damage has already been done. The natural distribution of the rocks has been permanently altered and the habitat they provided destroyed. I understand that people want to "leave their mark" but it gets tiresome.

zimmertr
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Schenk
Off Leash Man



Joined: 16 Apr 2012
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Location: Traveling, with the bear, to the other side of the Mountain
Schenk
Off Leash Man
PostMon Dec 13, 2021 8:15 am 
Sadly most cairns have been built by separate individuals with no actual meaning in mind, much less some continuity from cairn to cairn. After one cairn is built (probably useful at that point) they quickly become scattered all over the place. I can understand the usefulness of a single cairn marking a key col, or river crossing, etc. but I have been in places where there way too many cairns placed by people who think their way was best. All that was left was a huge area with seemingly randomly placed cairns. I have been on peaks where some of the cairns seemed to be built to mark the wrong way to go. Example? I don't know about now, but when I was atop the Grand Teton the shear number of cairns was ridiculous. One small cairn actually marked the standard decent rappel off the top. As far as I know there is not a consensus amongst cairn builders as to how they to convey any message to others. Regardless, many times cairns are just too difficult to decipher as to what the builder was trying to mark. Anyone trying to follow them would be led in circles or in the wrong direction. Sigh..

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.

RumiDude
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timberghost
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PostMon Dec 13, 2021 8:24 am 
Say "YES" to cairns!! smile.gif

Chief Joseph
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus



Joined: 26 Jul 2009
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
PostMon Dec 13, 2021 9:31 am 
Schenk wrote:
Sadly most cairns have been built by separate individuals with no actual meaning in mind, much less some continuity from cairn to cairn.
The Grand Canyon is one of the worst for that. I realized this after having to backtrack several times.There are cairns that lead to nowhere. I always had to remind myself to actively ignore the cairns. Even though cairns could be of value on rocky and baren landscape like the desert and alpine, the confusing plethora of them negates this. And even when they are singular, it is difficult to know exactly what is intended by them. I am mostly distrustful unless I have a route description which mentions it, and even then I have been mislead by someone putting up another cairn in the wrong place or for a different reason. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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MangyMarmot
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PostMon Dec 13, 2021 11:19 am 
Last summer my son and I hike the Uinta Highline Trail. There are large stretches of open tundra like country with no real tread. You just follow cairns to the next valley or to wherever the trail becomes visible again.

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BigBrunyon
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BigBrunyon
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PostMon Dec 13, 2021 2:45 pm 
It is unacceptable to have poorly maintained cairns in these jurisdictions where you're paying for the trails!! Where's the service??? You're paying!! Whoever is raking in that trail money needs to better maintain the cairns!! Unreliable, unmaintained cairns are a liability!!!

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Chief Joseph
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Chief Joseph
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PostMon Dec 13, 2021 3:15 pm 
I agree, ^^^ We need to have Specialized "Cairn Rangers"! With that accomplished maybe someone can fix the roads? If they can't or won't fix the roads, then they should be open to any and all off road vehicle use! rant.gif AND NO GATES EVER!!!!

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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MangyMarmot
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PostTue Dec 14, 2021 3:21 pm 
Perhaps the WTA can mobilize a professional cairn crew.

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sarbar
Living The Dream



Joined: 28 Jan 2002
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sarbar
Living The Dream
PostWed Dec 15, 2021 11:36 am 
When you all go to beaches, do you suffer mental breakdowns seeing millions of rocks? devilsmile.gif I live by the beach...the piled rocks and driftwood shelters must cause some of you the most distress. Lol.

https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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Chief Joseph
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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Dec 15, 2021 5:01 pm 
sarbar wrote:
When you all go to beaches, do you suffer mental breakdowns seeing millions of rocks? devilsmile.gif I live by the beach...the piled rocks and driftwood shelters must cause some of you the most distress. Lol.
Elitist and Purist hikers don't go to the beach, they are too busy with conquering mountains and their Bulger Lists and such.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Hiking addict
Cooper Warpula



Joined: 07 Mar 2022
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Location: Keyport Washington
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Cooper Warpula
PostMon May 02, 2022 5:47 pm 
I have used cairns for navigation in the past, but I don’t rely on them. One time I was hiking in Southern California and almost missed a junction off a dirt road, if there weren’t cairns there I would have missed it. Many people make cairns just for art but that can confuse navigation. If you want to make a cairn for art don’t do it near a hiking trail.

To have a good life, you need to take risks.
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