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HitTheTrail
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PostTue Jul 13, 2021 9:30 am 
CC wrote:
Leavenworth (in general) wasn't thrilled with the idea in any case,.....
What I found interesting was that Harriet Bullitt was a big backer of the project!

Anne Elk
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altasnob
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PostTue Jul 13, 2021 10:59 am 
Why was Leavenworth and Chelan County against the particle accelerator project? Do they prefer their economy centered around selling junk and crappy food to tourists over an economy centered around world class scientist living and visiting the town? It would have made Leavenworth a small version Los Alamos, NM, which consistently ranks high on best city in America rank (education, life expectancy, ect.) The construction stage would not have been fun, but once completed, no one would even realize there is a particle accelerator buried deep below Cashmere Mtn.

RumiDude
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HitTheTrail
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PostTue Jul 13, 2021 12:13 pm 
altasnob wrote:
It would have made Leavenworth a small version Los Alamos, NM, which consistently ranks high on best city in America rank (education, life expectancy, ect.)
I think that was Harriet's long term vision.

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kevperro
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PostTue Jul 13, 2021 5:53 pm 
Americans don't want particle accelerators. We want gigantic fiberglass marmots, elephant ears, and all-you-can-eat pancakes.

Anne Elk
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FiveNines
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PostTue Jul 13, 2021 6:34 pm 
Sounds like yall are talking about the DUSEL project.
CC wrote:
can imagine how many truckloads of debris from the construction of two, 2 three-mile long, tunnels would have to have been trucked out via a small county/forest service road
We don't have to imagine. The proposal was summerized in the ST. 43,000 rt truckloads from about mile marker 9 on the Icicle for 2.5 years and a cost of 300,000,000 dollars. In 2004 dollars. $300,000,000 assumes no overruns or problems in digging 7,000 ft of tunnel in the Wilderness. For a creation of 100 permanent jobs and 100 rotational research jobs. This proposal would have consumed 1/10 of NSF budget for a year. Seattle Times ALPS
altasnob wrote:
It ultimately lost out to a location in South Dakota (politics)
How did Cashmere site lose due to "politics?" DUSEL was ultimately built in an abandoned mine in Lead SD, for less than half the price. 70,000,000 public money and a 70,000,000 dollar donation. Maybe by politics you meant: cost, feasibility, environment, competition etc? But I don't think so. Could you please expand? kevperro and snob, It's not an accelerator. It's a detector. And Americans got it. Wall Drug is less than a day's drive from Lead, so you can have your fiberglass animals and ayce cakes, too. I know I'll be sure to take in the rich scientific and academic culture when I roll through Sturgis later this summer. SWSD Rocks! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanford_Underground_Research_Facility

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HitTheTrail
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PostTue Jul 13, 2021 6:51 pm 
BTW, I was not implying that I was in favor of the project. I just found it interesting that Harriet was onboard.

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altasnob
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PostTue Jul 13, 2021 7:37 pm 
The article below touches on the politics issue: "Neutrino experts studying more objective, scientific criteria for a site tend to find the politics a little disconcerting." "Whichever of the four sites is chosen, neutrino scientists say they hope it will offer a chance for them to put the politics and competition of the past few years behind them." "Without a socioeconomic case to press, the UW has to convince the NSF that a tunnel has scientific and practical advantages over a mine." https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/lab-buried-under-ski-slope-would-tackle-cosmic-puzzles/ Beyond cost, is it better for the US to put the laboratory in a remote location difficult for the rest of the world to get to, or should it be closer to a major metropolitan region? That question is moot since the lab is in Lead, which looks like a really swell place:

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FiveNines
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PostTue Jul 13, 2021 11:30 pm 
"tend to find the politics a little disturbing" "a chance for them to put the politics and competition of the past few years behind them." Snob It's nice that you could find the word "politics" in a few sentences from a news article. What are the politics involved, though? Could you find a line to cut and paste from the article that describes exactly what these political issues are? Or maybe you have an idea of your own and could express what your meaning in your own words? Nice picture you took there of mines in Lead. Your picture really tells a story. Those holes in Lead exist though, regardless of any science project. From the original mines. I'm glad those mining holes in Lead were repurposed into something useful for the future, and weren't dug newly in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness. Your accessibility argument seems silly. Leavenworth is a 3hour drive, in good conditions, from nearest major airport. It's easier to fly into Rapid City than Wenatchee. Finally, accessibility is a minor issue compared to cost, scientific feasibility or environmental degradation, for only ~100 visiting researchers/year.

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Pyrites
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PostWed Jul 14, 2021 12:14 am 
Spiffy thread drift. A little Newtonian physics wouldn’t have surprised. World class physics reasearch? I did not see that coming. And interesting too.

Keep Calm and Carry On? Heck No. Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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RumiDude
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PostWed Jul 14, 2021 2:56 am 
Well as far as politics involved ... well of course politics was involved in almost every aspect of it. Nothing like that project ever gets done (or not done) without political strings being pulled. When money is being spent, you can be sure politics is involved. Same goes for any percieved disruption. It's politics from start to finish in every aspect. One thing for sure, a neutrino didn't cause that rockfall on Aasgard. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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GaliWalker
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PostWed Jul 14, 2021 4:52 am 
RumiDude wrote:
One thing for sure, a neutrino didn't cause that rockfall on Aasgard.
And (thankfully), neither did a Quark. winksmile.gif

'Gali'Walker => 'Mountain-pass' walker bobbi: "...don't you ever forget your camera!" Photography: flickr.com/photos/shahiddurrani

RumiDude
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FiveNines
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PostThu Nov 10, 2022 8:08 pm 
BREAKING NEWS: Bucky found the missing neutrinos! They were not in Cashmere, they were buried under the South Pole. The neutrinos were never in Cashmere. After some confusion and technical issues, presentation starts at 10:30.
ETA PBS Pop Science explanation of the same discovery.

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