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cdestroyer
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cdestroyer
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 3:41 pm 
As I read various news reports that the covid19 virus has disrupted the normal influenza seasons and has the makers of vaccines up in a quandary as to what to use for a base for this seasons influenza virus. apparently the regular virus has some effect on helping to prevent infection from covid19. imo I will probably get the regular flu vaccine and skip the covid booster.....

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Snowshovel
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 4:33 pm 
I can’t find anything to support your primary thesis

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cdestroyer
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 5:14 pm 
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Snowshovel
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 5:26 pm 
One article was dated in 2020, so that may not be at all applicable given the two years since its publication. The second article does in no way suggest that taking a flu vax in leu of the Covid vax is a reasonable alternative. So I stand by my statement, and I wonder if you did indeed read them.

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graywolf
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 7:02 pm 
cdestroyer wrote:
As I read various news reports that the covid19 virus has disrupted the normal influenza seasons and has the makers of vaccines up in a quandary as to what to use for a base for this seasons influenza virus. apparently the regular virus has some effect on helping to prevent infection from covid19. imo I will probably get the regular flu vaccine and skip the covid booster.....
Like you, I'm getting the flu shot (eventually), and skipping the Omicron specific booster for now. Watch this video and you'll understand why: https://zdoggmd.com/paul-offit-10/. This booster was tested in eight mice, and that's all the data we have at this time. Human data will be available before too long, but even if it's positive, Dr. Offit gives a clear explanation, and rationale why most of us don't need it. And no, I'm not an anti-vaccine crank. I retired after 38 years as a clinical pharmacist who focused on infectious diseases (and lipidology, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, etc.). At this time, and especially after watching the video, I feel no need to get this booster.

The only easy day was yesterday...
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Randito
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 7:29 pm 
graywolf wrote:
This booster was tested in eight mice, and that's all the data we have at this time.
Where did you dig that up? Other sources indicate a bit more testing "Have The New Bivalent Covid-19 Vaccine Boosters Been Tested On Humans?" https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2022/09/12/have-the-new-bivalent-covid-19-vaccine-boosters-been-tested-on-humans/amp/

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graywolf
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 7:39 pm 
Randito wrote:
graywolf wrote:
This booster was tested in eight mice, and that's all the data we have at this time.
Where did you dig that up? Other sources indicate a bit more testing "Have The New Bivalent Covid-19 Vaccine Boosters Been Tested On Humans?" https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2022/09/12/have-the-new-bivalent-covid-19-vaccine-boosters-been-tested-on-humans/amp/
From the article you shared: "Ah, but a closer look reveals that the FDA announcement was referring to the bivalent booster with mRNA for the original and for Omicron BA.1 spikes proteins, not the BA.4 and BA.5 spike proteins. So the bivalent boosters tested in these human studies were not exactly the same as the bivalent ones being administered now in clinics, pharmacies, and other vaccination sites throughout the country. No, if you want human clinical trial data specifically on the bivalent BA.4/5 booster, you’re gonna have to wait a little while." Got to minute 17:50 of the video I shared. He doesn't mention the number of mice, but it's mice data we have. ETA: https://www.cbs17.com/community/health/coronavirus/fact-check-were-new-covid-19-boosters-tested-in-just-8-mice-should-it-matter/ Another ETA. Vaccinologists like to say "Mice lie and monkeys exaggerate."

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Randito
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 8:11 pm 
graywolf wrote:
ETA: https://www.cbs17.com/community/health/coronavirus/fact-check-were-new-covid-19-boosters-tested-in-just-8-mice-should-it-matter/
From the article you linked:
Quote:
"There’s no concern from the safety perspective that this vaccine is safe,” said Dr. Pia MacDonald, an epidemiologist at RTI International.
I'll be getting this year's flu shot in the next few weeks, but the updated COVID booster will have to wait 60 days as I have just recovered from a COVID infection. I felt crummy for 2 and half days with a fever that peaked at 100.5F about 30 hours after onset. Personally I'm glad that I have had two moderna shots + Pfizer booster + Moderna booster. I know people that have died from COVID. My youngest son (30 yo) had a high fever for a week early on before vaccines were available.

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Snowshovel
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 8:15 pm 
I’m glad you’re better, and glad we are getting to where Covid only makes one feel crummy

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graywolf
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 8:26 pm 
Randito wrote:
graywolf wrote:
ETA: https://www.cbs17.com/community/health/coronavirus/fact-check-were-new-covid-19-boosters-tested-in-just-8-mice-should-it-matter/
From the article you linked:
Quote:
"There’s no concern from the safety perspective that this vaccine is safe,” said Dr. Pia MacDonald, an epidemiologist at RTI International.
I'll be getting this year's flu shot in the next few weeks, but the updated COVID booster will have to wait 60 days as I have just recovered from a COVID infection. I felt crummy for 2 and half days with a fever that peaked at 100.5F about 30 hours after onset. Personally I'm glad that I have had two moderna shots + Pfizer booster + Moderna booster. I know people that have died from COVID. My youngest son (30 yo) had a high fever for a week early on before vaccines were available.
I'm not concerned about the safety, and I fully support anyone who wants to take the booster. At this time I'm not convinced I need it (based on T cell response in healthy individuals). The booster will increase neutralizing antibodies for 10 to 12 weeks (we think), then those will taper off. We need to remember that the intention of the vaccines is to prevent severe illness and hospitalization. It sometimes seems that the public expects that the boosters will prevent any illness, which is not the case. Any loss of life from COVID is a tragedy, and I hope we're turning the corner on this disease. Also, I am very glad to hear that you're recovering. ETA: We probably will have human data by the time you're eligible for your booster.

The only easy day was yesterday...

cdestroyer
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Randito
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 9:28 pm 
graywolf wrote:
I'm not concerned about the safety
You didn't lead with that, you first stated concern about limited testing (the eight mice thing) and only as a follow on said you didn't think you needed it.

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graywolf
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PostSun Oct 02, 2022 5:51 am 
Randito wrote:
You didn't lead with that,
Well, I wasn't aware that I was supposed to lead with that - my apologies.

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cdestroyer
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PostSun Oct 02, 2022 6:01 am 
snowshovel said " in leu of the Covid vax is a reasonable alternative. " and I never said that, I said "apparently the regular virus has some effect on helping to prevent infection from covid19" not in lieu of. and I believe the covid started in 2019 so if it disrupted the 2020 influenza virus outbreak that would have been the info. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-021-00642-4

graywolf
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Randito
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PostSun Oct 02, 2022 8:02 am 
From what I can tell from various reports, the number of flu cases dropped dramatically during the pandemic because a much higher percentage of people were masking, practicing social distancing, working remote, staying home from school or work when ill than was typical in prior years. I expect that this year's flu season will have increased numbers, but perhaps not as high some past years due to a greater preponderance of people practicing infection control measures.

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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostThu Oct 06, 2022 1:46 pm 
I was shot up for Covid yesterday. This time, I did not get the flu shot at the same time. I still feel lousy today so I guess it wasn't the combination of the two. Got chills and aches. Blah.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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