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Randito
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Randito
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PostTue Feb 08, 2022 11:53 am 
Kim Brown wrote:
Randito wrote:
Various uses as fertilizer have more administrative overhead and costs than just sending it to Arlington, OR.
Perhaps Arlington, OR doesn't want our poop. I bet there's a poop agreement between us and them. RE: cost, well, we gotta start somewhere. And from there, continue researching for better ways to do it.
The landfill in Arlington, OR is the biggest employer in Gilliam County. The 1900 people in the county certainly could vote to stop accepting Seatle's garbage. But I don't think they are in any hurry to do so.
Quote:
Projected life remaining 143 years
The facility accepts many kinds of waste -- including Superfund site clean up debris -- so sewage sludge is well within their capacity. The methane that results from biosolids and other organic matter in the landfill is routed through a series of wells and used in an electrical generation plant.
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The energy plant at Columbia Ridge uses landfill gas to generate renewable energy as part of Waste Management's increasing focus on extracting value from waste. Gas collected from the landfill powers 12 engines which produce 12.8 MW of electricity - enough to power 12,500 homes in Seattle through an agreement with the City of Seattle.
https://www.wmnorthwest.com/landfill/columbiaridge.htm

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Kim Brown
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Kim Brown
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PostTue Feb 08, 2022 12:47 pm 
Sounds like they should be clamoring for our poop. And we won't give it to them. They want our poop. We want our poop. Poop for everyone. Hm, sounds like a government motto.

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Anne Elk
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Anne Elk
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PostTue Feb 08, 2022 5:31 pm 
Kim Brown wrote:
Havent read all those articles, but they look old; one discusses unregulated biosolids, which LOOP is not unregulated.
I know LOOP is regulated, but you missed my point, which was that King County can afford to test for only a fraction of what might be in that stuff. And this being a trendy solution, who knows about the methods of other municipalities with less $$ to monitor & test.
Randito wrote:
...the simplest thing for the agency to do with sludge is put it in a landfill.
Obviously they don't agree. Probably cheaper to spread it in the woods than truck it to Oregon. banana.gif "It's not easy being green ..." poop.gif hockeygrin.gif

"There are yahoos out there. Itís why we canít have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Randito
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Randito
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PostTue Feb 08, 2022 9:11 pm 
Anne Elk wrote:
Obviously they don't agree. Probably cheaper to spread it in the woods than truck it to Oregon
How do you know that? I suspect that it's more expensive to use it as fertilizer that it is to landfill it. The agency probably needs to perform a NEPA study and take public comments each time they want to "spread it around". The paperwork is already done when it goes to the landfill. And notice my comment wasn't "cheaper" it was "simpler"

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Sculpin
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PostWed Feb 09, 2022 8:38 am 
I had thought that spreading biosolids in forests was a win-win, and I am not quite ready to let go of that, but this thread did lead to some reflection. After mentioning upthread that in Germany the farmers used to spray the contents of septic tanks directly on the fields in the fall, I decided to check what they do nowadays. Well, they don't do that anymore. I found this (in English because my German is pretty rusty): https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/medien/1410/publikationen/190116_uba_fb_klaerschlamm_engl_bf.pdf In summary, they are down to 23% of biosolids being used in agriculture, but not on fruits and vegetables. Germany mostly incinerates their sewage sludge. For decades now, Germany has used what are called zero-emission combustors for this type of thing. Technically they are not zero emission but the effluent actually meets clean air requirements. Germany has no interest in landfilling of biosolids going forward, although they have done so in the past. They don't have an eastern Oregon to exploit. In the EU, some countries like Portugal, England, Ireland, and Spain still apply the vast majority of their biosolids to agriculture. After being down this rabbit hole for awhile, I am still not sure if there is a problem with spreading this stuff in forests, assuming the traces of various undesirable compounds don't end up in the water to any meaningful degree. The German document notes that most of the undesirable compounds quickly combine with soil particles and must be extracted very carefully to be measured. That also means that they will mostly stay where they are applied.

Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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RichP
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PostWed Feb 09, 2022 8:46 am 
Randito wrote:
The agency probably needs to perform a NEPA study and take public comments each time they want to "spread it around".
Would this be true on private property? I do see DNR land on this map but most of the locations appear to be private.

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Randito
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Randito
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PostWed Feb 09, 2022 10:26 am 
RichP wrote:
Would this be true on private property?
Explain how you think environmental laws and regulations are different for private property than for public property. I mean if it's a free for all on private property -- what's stopping a private company from buying a parcel near for example Black Diamond and disposing of the sludge there without the transportation costs to Arlington. OR ?

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Kim Brown
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PostWed Feb 09, 2022 11:43 am 
Chill, snarky member wink.gif. I think he's asking is the NEPA process is required on private property - it's reasonable for someone to ask if they're not sure about something. Private property is not generally subject to the NEPA process; the state is subject to a SEPA checklist, which is similar, unless there's a federal nexus like funding, at which point both NEPA and SEPA are probably required, and public comments are not always required; if the project is part of a prior Environmental Impact Statement, perhaps not.

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert

RichP
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Pyrites
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PostWed Feb 09, 2022 5:29 pm 
I have the same problem. Ask a question on line and the last thing some folks assume is youíre asking a question on line. I canít figure out why.

Keep Calm and Carry On? Heck No. Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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treeswarper
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PostSat Feb 12, 2022 8:25 am 
There is also a money making landfill in Klickitat County where your garbage goes and maybe some poop too. Like Arlington, they have a methane maker going. The landfill contributes greatly to the county budget. Some time ago, I heard a story about a family who moved to Thorne Bay, AK and immediately was out gathering all the big clams they could find. They soon were told why there were so many. Locals didn't touch the clams because untreated sewage was dumped in the bay. Is Victoria, BC still piping their untreated poop out into the Salish Sea? I don't mean accompanying the poop movement with bagpipe music. I don't mean a specific movement. Boy, can this topic get sidetracked easily by a wandering brain.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be humanĖĖanimals and aliens are great possibilities
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Slim
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Slim
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PostSat Feb 12, 2022 1:06 pm 
Looks like they cleaned it up finally https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-sewage-plant-1.5867582 Mr. Floatie applied some pressure apparently. lol.gif

"Lean mean money-making-machines serving fiends"

Anne Elk
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Anne Elk
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Anne Elk
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PostSat Feb 12, 2022 1:27 pm 
^^^ Now they can spread it over their massive clearcuts. An improvement. hockeygrin.gif

"There are yahoos out there. Itís why we canít have nice things." - Tom Mahood

Slim
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostMon Feb 14, 2022 2:03 pm 
Anne Elk wrote:
King County can afford to test for only a fraction of what might be in that stuff
I'm sympathetic to this kind of argument. We have a long history of assuming things that are convenient are safe, and it's had a lot of unintended consequences.

Anne Elk
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Anne Elk
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Anne Elk
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PostSun Mar 13, 2022 12:40 pm 
I'm bumping this up because of a story that appeared on NPR this morning re the effects of wastewater sludge having been spread in Maine. I repeat my objection: King County cannot possibly afford to test for everything that goes into our sewers. It's irresponsible to market this stuff to the public, and to be spreading whatever's deemed not fit to market to consumers for their gardens, on replanted tree farms in Washington, private or otherwise. frown.gif https://www.npr.org/2022/03/13/1086330005/farmers-livelihoods-are-at-risk-as-some-discover-forever-chemicals-in-the-soil

"There are yahoos out there. Itís why we canít have nice things." - Tom Mahood

RichP
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RichP
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PostMon Mar 14, 2022 6:17 am 
It looks like there is more to this story than we are lead to believe. I did quite a bit of biking over the winter on the tree farm and these loop trucks were often the only traffic I would see. This area is swampy with several creeks that eventually drain into the Snoqualmie River and Puget Sound. I wonder if they monitor the water quality downstream for this kind of stuff?

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