[Brian Curtis]

[Schroder]

[Brian Curtis]

With 4 charges that would have been something like 170 miles between charges? What is he rated range on the ID4? I was hoping to get something that would get all the way to Portland without a charge.

[Schroder]

[Bowregard]

We bought a RAV4 Prime (Plug-in hybrid) in Oregon last August. Range is only 42 miles but that covers most of our typical weekly needs. Add that to about 500mi range for the engine and you can go a long ways without refueling. For us it is a good compromise - miles are less expensive and no range anxiety. We don't even bother to try to find charging stations since the car switches over to hybrid when charge runs low. We used up most of the gas in the tank driving back but we are still driving on the only tank of gas we put in the car. We use the engine every couple of weeks to keep the system running clean. I calculated it out last summer and back then the cost per mile on electricity was only 46% of the cost per mile on gas (and it gets 38MPG in hybrid mode). Like Schroder said the EV mileage drops off in the colder weather. I think that must come from the additional electrical needs (i.e. heat pump, battery heaters, defrost, seat and steering wheel heaters, etc.) My initial reaction was that the additional complexity would make maintenance a lot more expensive but after driving it for 6 months I don't think so. The electrical side doesn't need much and the engine sees so few miles it doesn't need attention often either. Lots of PHEVs and BEVs from many manufacturers coming to market in the near future. if the legislature can ever pass an EV update they will cost almost the same as standard hybrid versions. The RAV4 Prime is too hard to find and they want too much money for it right now. We just lucked out buying it before the chip crisis hit Toyota.

[BigBrunyon]

Always gotta factor in the ROAD RAGE

[iron]

we got a 2017 bolt in the summer of 2021. had about 30k miles on it, i think. $19k sticker price. battery recall is complete. no worries there. range is around 260 miles in summer. in the winter, here in the great white north with temps at -15F, it has dropped to ~80 miles. for winter use, it's fine, since we have very limited trips. the biggest issue with range anxiety is whether there is a damaged plug and no other plugs in the area you're in. i'd always bring a charging cable - both 120v and 240v. i have only done one road trip with the car from kimberley, BC, to spokane. there's a level 3 charger at the midpoint of this trip, so it works out well. lots of free level 2 chargers all over the place. in town, we have a few free level 2 chargers, so i always smile just a little when we get our free $1 of charging while at the swimming pool with the kids. EV is definitely the way to go. i would agree that charging speed is the key factor for road trips. the bolt is not a good car in this regard compared to others on the market. but, for what we need, it's great. one pedal driving. no maintenance. great acceleration. all awesome. but, this is a road car, only, so if you want FS roads, you need something else.

[neek]

(collection of random observations) You can access Consumer Reports for free if you're a Seattle Public Library member (and probably others). They just ranked the Mustang Mach-E as the best EV of 2022. They don't have a ton of cars rated yet, but probably will soon. Other top picks include the Kia Niro, Tesla Model 3, and Nissan Leaf. Of course, none of these are meant for rough roads. Not sure I really need something with high clearance though. It's nice on occasion, but perhaps not worth the tradeoffs, if you'll mostly just be using the car around town. I stopped by the local Ford dealer to see what they had to say about the Mach-E. The middle two models are sold out for the year; you can't even order them. The other two have a 28 week lead time which they said realistically would be twice that. I got to see one from the outside, and have to admit, as a non-car guy, they look pretty sweet. Sadly, there are supply-side limits on batteries, and availability won't be solved by new models coming on the market. Demand will only go up with surging gas costs and the dawning realization that EVs are better and are quickly becoming mainstream. Tesla has been pretty smart about owning as much of their supply chains as possible. Washington State is working on a $7500 credit in addition to the federal one. I don't know if it will apply retroactively. Definitely waiting to hear more about that before placing any orders. While I don't like replacing something that isn't completely dead yet, it seems likely that whatever you buy now you'll easily be able to sell in a few years if it doesn't work out, maybe even at a profit. Waiting for the current car to fall apart probably doesn't make financial sense. Plus it's a bit of a death trap. One thing I hear repeatedly in reviews (including Schroder's earlier) is how poorly the batteries perform in cold weather. Some have heat pumps to keep them at an optimal temperature, but that still takes energy. And warming up the interior takes energy; you can't just passively gather engine heat like you do in a gas car. Also it sounds like some of these newfangled door handles don't work when frozen. Oops! Another thing about range anxiety - you really don't want to charge above 80% unless you have to, because a full charge degrades the batteries faster. And you don't want to dip too low. So on a cold day, if you are driving fast and managing the battery smartly, you might get something like half the estimated range between charges. One thing I see improving over the next few years is charging time. Already the e-GMP platform (Hyundai and others) claims 80% in 18 minutes. This is with rapid chargers which are still quite rare, but that will change. So for me it continues to be a game of "hurry up and wait". In the meantime, I just focus on driving less. If it gets to the point where the tax credits look like they're going to expire, I might jump on something - although by that point, it might be too late, with deliveries as far out as they are. Not that it would be the end of the world to miss out.

[Bowregard]

If the EV or PHEV is less than $45k Washington excludes $20k from sales tax (or use tax in our case). That saved us an extra $2k. That amount drops down over time (we just missed the $25k exemption by a month). There are also federal, state, and utility subsidies for charge stations and infrastructure. I think the federal one is 30%. The R4P batteries are underneath the floor and liquid heated and cooled so although the temp control takes a bit of energy the battery temps can be optimized for charging. The charge control system will not charge the batteries to 100% nor will the car run them down near 0%. The upper and lower charge states are avoided to maintain the health of the batteries. As I understand it these thresholds are artificially higher when the batteries are new and adjusted over time to maintain the stated range as long as possible. That being said it is best to schedule charging to avoid leaving the car at the extreme state of charge ranges. I don't know about other EVs or PHEVs but our R4P has more than enough power for our needs on EV mode alone. They claim 302 HP with the engine and EV motors together but if they can figure out how to extend the EV range to 400-500 miles and get the charging under an hour I could forgo the engine completely. Somebody is going to have to figure out what to do with all these battery packs if that happens though. Once EVs overtake engines there are going to be a lot of depleted batteries to deal with.

[Schroder]

[iron]

the inside of my EV gets comfortably warm in about 4 minutes when starting in minus -20F weather. that's a big win in my book. the drawback to heating really comes in when you're doing a longer winter trip and you want to use heat. the extra usage really adds up over a few hours.

[Stefan]

I have been in Utah. I have been in Idaho. I disagree completely EV is the way to go in the off roads. One. High clearance. Most EV cars lack high clearance--and that high clearance is very important in Utah. Two. Cold. This battery thingy and cold does not do so well. Three. Recharging stations are very difficult to find on the way there and back in the outback. Four. You run out of power in the outback.....you gotta call a tow service....but if you run out of gas.... EVs do have their niche. Commuting local cars. Got that. Makes sense. They are not going to make it currently as an off pavement vehicle for outdoor enthusiasts. So the recommendation will probably be....have a high clearance vehicle for your outdoor enthusiasts, and make sure it is diesel, because diesel will be around for a very very long time...and an EV vehicle.....

[iron]

[kiliki]

[Schroder]