Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > Road Trips, EVs, & Range Anxiety Questions
 Reply to topic
Previous :: Next Topic
Author Message
Stefan
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 4923 | TRs | Pics
Stefan
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 12:56 pm 
Ok. So let's say I get off work on Friday. I want to ski at Snowbird the next day and be there at opening time with my buddy. The drive takes a solid 13 hours with gas. Two pee breaks while we gas up. Now I have my e car. E cars...from what I have heard lose a significant amount of power in the winter. E cars are great for Southern California. Not so great for interior when the cold drops. How much longer to my time will my added stops to Snowbird take now? In winter cold conditions?

Art is an adventure.
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 8916 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
Snarky Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 1:16 pm 
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
kiliki
Member
Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 2101 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
kiliki
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 1:38 pm 
Quote:
So let's say I get off work on Friday. I want to ski at Snowbird the next day and be there at opening time with my buddy.
If that's your normal driving habit then maybe an EV isn't for you. Or if you are a 2 (or more) car household, maybe you take your other car. I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that most of us would fly in that particular scenario, especially given winter conditions along the route.

Schroder
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
BeardoMcGrath
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Jan 2018
Posts: 118 | TRs | Pics
Location: Snohomish
BeardoMcGrath
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 2:03 pm 
kiliki wrote:
I'm still getting used to the difference between uphill energy use and downhill and what it means for my hiking trips. I hiked on the PCT north of Chinook Pass yesterday and mapping the route, saw I'd have plenty of charge from my house in Phinney without having to stop for the round trip. But I was already down to 50% when I pulled in to Chinook Pass. On the way back down, though, I gained 3% by the time I was down to White River level, and only used 18% on the way home. I tend to think of the drive from Seattle to the Chinook Pass turnoff or at least the NP entrance as flat-ish but clearly there is more incline than I realized. Maybe it doesn't actually mean anything for my hiking trips, since downhills follow uphills; you can't go uphill forever.
I had family visiting recently and we took a hike to Tonga Ridge using their Nissan Leaf. Similar adjustment to deal with a big drop in charge going uphill from Skykomish to the TH. Luckily there is a free charging station in Skykomish so we stopped for 15 min each way to top off. So many hiking trips locally are possible assuming there is a charging station near where you leave pavement.
Stefan wrote:
Ok. So let's say I get off work on Friday. I want to ski at Snowbird the next day and be there at opening time with my buddy. The drive takes a solid 13 hours with gas. Two pee breaks while we gas up. Now I have my e car. E cars...from what I have heard lose a significant amount of power in the winter. E cars are great for Southern California. Not so great for interior when the cold drops. How much longer to my time will my added stops to Snowbird take now? In winter cold conditions?
I can understand this could pose an issue for those trips where the goal is to drive as far as possible in a day. I have driven Seattle<->Sacramento in about 12 hrs with just a few stops and that would probably take longer with an EV. I do think the transition to electric vehicles may require a readjustment in how to calculate travel times factoring in longer stops. Longer term I do think there could be an issue of charger capacity and dwell time at busy charging stations when it comes to driving many miles in a day. I imagine a standard 8 pump gas station can average pretty high vehicle throughput per hour, whereas many more charging stations are required to do the same. Since only a minority of vehicles are EV at the moment though this has not yet become a problem. The final frontier will probably be overlanding trips into some of the remote areas of the SW; I often carry extra gas on those trips in order to extend my range when doing a lot of off-road driving. It will be cool to see if charging efficiency can get to the point that folks could top off their electric Jeeps or whatever using solar panels when on such a trip. As with a lot of things with the energy transition though, we may have to accept a certain loss of convenience (like with electric ranges vs gas etc)

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Route Loser
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 121 | TRs | Pics
Location: Whidbey Island
Route Loser
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 2:16 pm 
Stefan, as a practical answer, for now you may be best served by a gas vehicle doing drives like that if you value getting there in a timely fashion. I'd say this forum has a higher percentage of people better served by a gas vehicle than the average population. Anyone who wants to go climb Remmel in a day from Seattle is going to be inconvenienced at least. As a actual answer, at 25 degrees F for the whole drive, I estimate 1 hour and 45 minutes charging time on the trip to Snowbird in the 5 vehicles that could do that trip the fastest. None of those have ground clearance of greater than 6.5".

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Stefan
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 4923 | TRs | Pics
Stefan
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 2:27 pm 
Randito wrote:
https://insideevs.com/news/560622/tesla-model3-lineup-realworld-test/
Thanks. That was helpful. Basically the Tesla cars have a reduction of 30% in range performance when the temperature drops to 32 degrees. If you were to charge the car...it takes about 30 minutes. Basically, 200 miles you get out of charge for 30 minutes in 32 degrees. So getting to Snowbird from Seattle...looks like adding 5 hours to the trip in the winter because I know it is colder than 32 going through Idaho a lot of the time. Rough and tough. Adding 40% more time to the trip.

Art is an adventure.
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Route Loser
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 121 | TRs | Pics
Location: Whidbey Island
Route Loser
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 2:32 pm 
BeardoMcGrath wrote:
I have driven Seattle<->Sacramento in about 12 hrs with just a few stops and that would probably take longer with an EV
I reckon you can do it in 11 hours total with 4 stops of 15 minutes to charge in the faster-charging EVs. I think most folks would stop more than that for longer regardless. In the slower-charging of the new EVs, I'd estimate 3 hours charging time, which still puts you in Sacramento in 13 hours.

BeardoMcGrath
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Route Loser
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 121 | TRs | Pics
Location: Whidbey Island
Route Loser
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 3:24 pm 
Stefan wrote:
So getting to Snowbird from Seattle...looks like adding 5 hours to the trip in the winter because I know it is colder than 32
Stefan, you've overestimated a bit unless you mean round trip. Which is fine since I think you should stick to gas for the next 5-10 years. I also think you'd be unlikely to choose a Model 3, which again, is not the fastest charging car in the game. You start both ends of the trip with a full battery. There's a charger at the ski area parking lot. Let's say the Model 3 has a roof rack with skis for an additional 15% loss of efficiency. One way charging times: At 20 F - 2 hrs 15 minutes At 0 F - 2 hours 35 minutes

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Schroder
Member
Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 6334 | TRs | Pics
Location: on the beach
Schroder
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 5:22 pm 
This morning I drove from near Coupeville to Crystal Mountain. I thought I could charge in the Crystal parking lot at one of their new level 2 chargers and all 8 of them were open when I got there. I plugged in, saw that charging started, and then got on the gondola expecting the car to be fully charged when I got back in the afternoon. Not only did it not charge but it seemed I actually lost some charge during the day. I unplugged and tried the next one and it was only level 1 charging. It would have taken a day. I dropped plans of going to Sunrise & headed down to Covington to Electrify America & the chargers were all purposely blocked by gasoline vehicles. I eventually made it home.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Route Loser
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 121 | TRs | Pics
Location: Whidbey Island
Route Loser
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 5:37 pm 
Schroder wrote:
I eventually made it home
I like to discuss what the cars are capable of with skeptics. The public charging infrastructure, on the other hand, is a joke for the number of EVs that are hitting the streets now. I had more than my share of adventures in the Leaf when it was a relief to make it home. Shocking to run into a Level 1 charger in public.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
CS
Member
Member


Joined: 04 Apr 2022
Posts: 171 | TRs | Pics
CS
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 7:17 pm 
What happens if you donít make it home? You just have to get a tow and/or hotel room or something?

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Route Loser
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Posts: 121 | TRs | Pics
Location: Whidbey Island
Route Loser
Member
PostMon Aug 08, 2022 7:47 pm 
CS wrote:
What happens if you donít make it home? You just have to get a tow and/or hotel room or something?
The world is your oyster. I have killed my Leaf stone dead and pushed it half a mile to a charging station. While out of cell range, I have knocked on doors until someone let me use their dryer outlet, and I've had someone tow charge me, taking advantage of the regenerative breaking. I suppose most people would get a tow to the nearest charging station.

CS
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Stefan
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 4923 | TRs | Pics
Stefan
Member
PostWed Aug 10, 2022 6:54 am 
Route Loser wrote:
Stefan wrote:
So getting to Snowbird from Seattle...looks like adding 5 hours to the trip in the winter because I know it is colder than 32
Stefan, you've overestimated a bit unless you mean round trip. Which is fine since I think you should stick to gas for the next 5-10 years. I also think you'd be unlikely to choose a Model 3, which again, is not the fastest charging car in the game. You start both ends of the trip with a full battery. There's a charger at the ski area parking lot. Let's say the Model 3 has a roof rack with skis for an additional 15% loss of efficiency. One way charging times: At 20 F - 2 hrs 15 minutes At 0 F - 2 hours 35 minutes
Doh! I think you are correctomundo!

Art is an adventure.
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
neek
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 2162 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle, WA
neek
Member
PostThu Nov 10, 2022 6:19 pm 
There's been no mention here yet of the passing of the Inflation Reduction Act, which removes the cap (total number of vehicles of a particular model sold) for the $7500 EV tax credit. The problem is, it also comes with an assembled-in-US requirement that makes pretty much everyone but Tesla and Chevy (and Rivian...been seeing a lot of those around here) ineligible. A new bill was introduced last week, the Affordable Electric Vehicles for America Act, that would greatly broaden the refund criteria to give manufacturers time to move operations. So once again you could claim the credit for Ioniq 5, EV6, etc. - assuming income requirements and whatnot are met. We'll see if the new Congress can get it passed. While I'd rather see subsidies go to ebikes for everyone vs. luxury cars for a few, I'll take what I can get.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Pyrites
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 1699 | TRs | Pics
Location: South Sound
Pyrites
Member
PostThu Nov 10, 2022 7:22 pm 
The one that surprises me is U.S. 12. Iíd think Morton or Packwood would be lobbying to get a couple stations installed. Be the place people stop for a burger or a cuppa and a cookie. The library at Packwood could easily accommodate at E end of their little parking lot. The clip showing someone feeling free to unplug someoneís car - pure arrogance.

Keep Calm and Carry On? Heck No. Stay Excited and Get Outside!
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 Reply to topic
Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > Road Trips, EVs, & Range Anxiety Questions
  Happy Birthday Otter, CampChamp, Wolfman!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum