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Cyclopath Faster than light


Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 6373 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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 Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:43 pm
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Sculpin Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2015 Posts: 1226 | TRs | Pics
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Sculpin
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 Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:36 am
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As BC would say...dafuq?
This is as surreal and Kafkaesque as you can get.
It starts with an abandoned forest near Issaquah, where clearcut logging is politically difficult on steep slopes above multimillion dollar McMansions, and any other form of logging would lose money. What to do if you are cynical and really don't care? Sell the carbon credits and leave the worthless peckerpoles there!
In comes the blockchain company. What the heck are they doing?
This article in Time requires a free subscription sign-up:
https://time.com/6181907/crypto-carbon-credits/
Here's the money quote:
"If crypto traders got involved and started investing in these tokens, KlimaDAO’s team argued, they might drive the price of the credits up, forcing polluting companies to either pay for higher-priced, higher-quality carbon credits or find more energy-efficient production methods."
So the blockchain company gets dual benefits, it tells its investors that it is offsetting the turbine-slowing power it draws to mine bitcoin, and then it tokenizes the carbon credits and eventually sells them to the highest bidder.
I don't think we are in Kansas anymore, Toto.
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
JimmyBob, Cyclopath
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
JimmyBob, Cyclopath
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altasnob Member


Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 1019 | TRs | Pics Location: Tacoma |
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altasnob
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 Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:14 pm
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Sculpin wrote: | This is as surreal and Kafkaesque as you can get. |
I'm still trying to decide if this is a good thing or not. The only way you are going to get government to take land that could be logged and protect it in perpetuity is to pay government money. Same with private land conservation. The only way to get private citizens to put their land into a conservation easement is to pay them money, which we currently do, through property tax breaks in exchange for conservation easements.
The crypto currency company was going to pollute regardless of this agreement. So now the government gets a little money, has a legal reason to permanently set aside the land for conservation purposes, and the crypto currency company feels a bit better about themselves as they continue to pollute.
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Cyclopath Faster than light


Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 6373 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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 Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:27 pm
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Cyclopath Faster than light


Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 6373 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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 Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:37 pm
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I posted this without comment because I don't know how I feel about it and wanted input from the brain trust. My immediate feeling was that these trees have been there forever and aren't going anywhere, so nothing is actually being offset?
The software company presents itself as filling a niche facilitating a transformative regreening where we all sing kumbaya. I'm a cynical person but hope this is a good thing? Still feels very weird.
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Sculpin Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2015 Posts: 1226 | TRs | Pics
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Sculpin
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 Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:08 pm
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Cyclopath wrote: | It doesn't sound like a cryptocurrency company? |
Sounds like what is described in the Time article, a cryptocurrency hedge fund in carbon credits.
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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NacMacFeegle Member


Joined: 16 Jan 2014 Posts: 2653 | TRs | Pics Location: United States |
Sculpin wrote: | It starts with an abandoned forest near Issaquah, where clearcut logging is politically difficult on steep slopes above multimillion dollar McMansions, and any other form of logging would lose money. What to do if you are cynical and really don't care? Sell the carbon credits and leave the worthless peckerpoles there! |
Yep, this is the big problem with carbon credit programs. They are only really helpful if the forest being protected could not otherwise be protected by other means. For example, the DNR carbon credit program is including a lot of forests already off-limits to logging.
In the case of Issaquah, I haven't done any research on that particular project, but just the fact that a crypto company is involved makes me instantly suspicious. The emissions they're offsetting are being caused in the production of digital money, rather than anything real or meaningful.
On the bright size, if the money from these credits is used to preserve at-risk forest land, that improves the situation significantly in my mind.
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mike Member


Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 6282 | TRs | Pics Location: SJIsl |
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mike
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 Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:37 am
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It's a bribe to pollute dressed in sheep's clothing.
Anne Elk, Randito
Anne Elk, Randito
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Sculpin Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2015 Posts: 1226 | TRs | Pics
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Sculpin
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 Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:59 am
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NacMacFeegle wrote: | to preserve at-risk forest land |
That is not part of the plan. If by "at risk' you mean at risk of being cut, that would be a forest that can be profitably cut. The DNR charter requires that they perform those cuts for maximum profit, that has not and will not change unless we update the charter.
This is all about monetizing forests that cannot be profitably cut for any of a variety of reasons. Fake forestland monetized into fake carbon credits and traded for fake money by fake companies.
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Anne Elk, mosey
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Anne Elk, mosey
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Schroder Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6384 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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 Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:57 am
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I worked for a very brief time for Enron. This sounds just like a scheme from their brain trust.
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Ski ><((((°>


Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12274 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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 Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:17 am
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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!


Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 10877 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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 Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:42 pm
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Can't be profitably cut NOW. Maybe later? Maybe after it burns down and is replanted?
Selling forest for carbon credits was touted as a way to make some money off of your land when the timber market was in the tank. The bad news was that you just couldn't say, I'm done and log it when prices went up.
This was presented at a meeting of small tree farm owners about 15 years ago. Then no more mention of it.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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PowderPawn Candidate


Joined: 30 Jul 2022 Posts: 50 | TRs | Pics Location: Spokane |
Spend it while you got it because all the bitcoins are eventually headed to the same place if you ask me. The pollution credit system has a lot of implications and effects, most people hate it a lot, I think they should only hate it a little.
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FiveNines Member


Joined: 01 Oct 2010 Posts: 485 | TRs | Pics
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Is there a token I can buy to support this? Like a Forest Tree Token? Mixing environmental policy w/unregulated blockchain securities markets is the future. I hope I can invest my 401k in this too. Act fast! Or they'll get there first.
Steps 1-3 of virtuous/win-win cycle:
Environmentalism is hard. Buying things is easy. Profit!
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