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Obi Tony Kenobi
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Obi Tony Kenobi
Waterfall Crazy!
PostWed Jul 06, 2022 1:00 pm 
So I work at that big plane company up here and there is a group for new hires and interns. Last month an event was organized to go hiking to Blanca Lake. It listed the hike as 7 miles, a great place to go for a swim in the lake and bring your paddleboards. The hike would start 8:30am and return to the trailhead by 11AM. The trip was listed for July 9th. Knowing there was a rockslide (it has just been cleared) that turned the hike into a 12 mile rt hike, there is no way you can do that in 2.5 hours unless you are trail running; plus the majority of the people hiking have never even been hiking in snow or evened hiked, and then telling people to bring swimsuits and paddleboards raised red flags for me. I sent a quick email to the organizer (June 15) and told him he should cancel the hike and reconsider going somewhere else. Also this was not the place to be bringing paddleboards to. If you went to the Forest Service website it even listed the Blanca Lake Trail as "CLOSED". Today it lists the Blanca Lake as "LIMITED" access and solid snow at beginning at 2 miles. Well I got no response. A few days later another email went out telling people to come out to a fun challenging hike. So I contacted the director of the program and told her my concerns and she agreed that with non-hikers and the majority being from out of state this was not a place to be taking newbies and she would cancel the event and tell the organizer to find some other place to hike. Well come back from my 4th of July vacation and finally hear from the organizer. Basically going off about he doesn't know who I am (he can look me up on the company directory, plus why does this matter?), he doesnt know about my SAR experience and how long I have worked at the company. How is any of this relevant? Then goes off that he has done this hike yearly and in 2019 he took 100 interns and new hires to Blanca Lake on the same outreach event in the exact same conditions with paddleboards... and included a picture of a melted lake with no snow anywhere and a group picture of about 50 people. Well please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't groups limited to 12 people and any groups bigger then need to be broken up and follow 1 mile behind? Plus this told me how much he did his planning and research when organizing the hiking events considering solid snow starts at 2 miles and the lake is still frozen. Then proceeds to tell me has informed the "70ish people who RSVP that the hike has been cancelled and why" and to enjoy the rest of my weekend. Am I wrong here and being a jerk? I just think it's irresponsible to take inexperienced hikers on a challenging hike and misrepresent the time the hike will take while not doing any research on the trail conditions and knowing that groups of 20-30-40-anything over 12 is completely not allowed. All this is reckless, negligent, and careless.

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reststep
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reststep
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 1:24 pm 
Looks like it is 2.5 hours. Wonder if he was talking about 11:00 pm. According to forest service website party size is limited to 12. https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/mbs/recarea/?recid=17876

"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
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kiliki
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 1:27 pm 
Holy cow. Can you report all this to HR? It's their job to protect the company, and if there is the potential for injury or death at a company-sanctioned event, or if the leader of a company sanctioned event is organizing an event that is illegal (maybe too strong a word, but I mean breaking the 12 person limit rule) it seems like HR might be glad to know in advance before something bad happens. I also think there may be an issue with interns thinking they have to attend this kind of event even if they don't want to, or aren't sure of their physical abilities/know it's a bad idea for them, etc. And that's an issue as well.

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fjoro
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 1:34 pm 
No good options here, bit it mostly sounds like you ruined someone's ego trip.

How would Horatio Alger have handled this situation?

rbuzby, Anne Elk, MultiUser
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Randito
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Randito
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 1:42 pm 
I believe there is a Redit forum labeled "Am I the ass####?" How you worded your message is key. That is more important than whether you have years of experience and deep knowledge. BTW Using arguments like "I have years of experience in SAR and have worked for the kite factory for decades" is a bogus argument, basically it is an "Appeal to authority" fallacy. Factual arguments: "The lake is still frozen", "The trail is snow covered for more than 2 miles", "36 CFR 261.58a limits party sizes to 12" are facts that the organizer may have been unaware of. Directly telling the organizer to cancel is certainly going to generate resistance, as you aren't in a position of authority over them. In the end this organizer "officially" canceled the event. So that is one measure of your effectiveness.

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DadFly
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 6:54 pm 
Good job!!! A careful reading of your first post makes your approach seem prudent, albeit you didn't post the actual text and probably shouldn't. 1. Leading a bunch of newbies into the mountains has hazards. 2. Compounding those hazards by 50(!?) suggests a profound ignorance of mountain safety/etiquette. 3. Snow and paddle boards don't mix well. 4. You helped prevent a likely SAR event. All those people were spared. Peace.

"May you live in interesting times"

Anne Elk, fjoro
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ChanceShowers
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 7:06 pm 
I think you did the right thing. The organizer didn't like it, because he didn't like being called on it. But he needed to be.

pula58
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Bootpathguy
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 7:27 pm 
Obi Tony Kenobi wrote:
plus the majority of the people hiking have never even been hiking in snow or evened hiked
How do you know this?
Obi Tony Kenobi wrote:
and included a picture of a melted lake with no snow anywhere and a group picture of about 50 people.
Care to share this picture?

Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
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Fedor
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 9:00 pm 
Obi Tony Kenobi wrote:
...a great place to go for a swim in the lake and bring your paddleboards.
I think you did the right thing. The event organizer should be thanking you after considering the current conditions. https://www.wta.org/go-hiking/trip-reports/trip_report.2022-07-05.1195591217

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FiveNines
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 9:19 pm 
Why would anyone have a problem with someone using a computer network to anonymously tell adult strangers what they can and cannot do? Especially since you obviously know better and it's for their own good.
kiliki wrote:
Can you report all this to HR?
This! Best to get HR involved before the situation spirals out of control.

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Kim Brown
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Kim Brown
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 9:33 pm 
Tone, you did the right thing. Even without the washout 2.5 hours round trip, while carrying paddleboards, and including horsing around in the lake on paddleboards, isn't reasonable. Kiliki is right- Company would be liable, if not wholly, in part. I'm surprised stuff like this isn't vetted. People can find out whether or not this was feasible if they choose to go on their own. Hold your head up. smile.gif

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert

fjoro
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BigBrunyon
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 10:29 pm 
These people have no business competing. Look it's a compete situation way upon that ridgline. Ridgeline!!!!!!! Of

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thunderhead
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 10:58 pm 
Id like to think that guy was confusing blanca with something much easier, but theres some poor decision making out there for sure.

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Malachai Constant
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 11:10 pm 
Probably mixed up Blanca Lake and Cape Blanco, was there last week it is very mellow but there are a few undertows. No icebergs either /s

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn

Obi Tony Kenobi
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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Jul 06, 2022 11:11 pm 
It's like stopping drunk drivers from driving by taking their keys, problem is there will eventually come a time where no one will be there to save them from themselves, therefore it is simply postponing the inevitable. But if it makes you feel like you are making a difference, go for it.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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