Forum Index > Trail Talk > Bear Spray failure
 Reply to topic
Previous :: Next Topic
Author Message
Vertec
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Sep 2018
Posts: 118 | TRs | Pics
Vertec
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 10:51 am 
Obviously storing food in her tent didn't help.

A camper scared off a bear ó then the grizzly came back and killed her

--------------
Out There, carrying the self-evident truth I am endowed by my Creator with unalienable rights of self-defended Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Chief Joseph
Member
Member


Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 6722 | TRs | Pics
Location: Verlot-Priest Lake
Chief Joseph
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 11:06 am 
"Investigators found a nearly empty can of bear spray inside Lokanís tent and evidence sheíd used it during the attack. In the report, officials said Lokanís family had suggested that manufacturers add whistles to bear-spray cans that would sound when someone pulls the trigger. The noise would serve two purposes: to alert others of danger and further harass the bear.".

I'm sure that would help a lot.  rolleyes.gif

Still safer sleeping in the woods than shopping at Walmart.

--------------
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Eric Hansen
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Posts: 612 | TRs | Pics
Location: Wisconsin
Eric Hansen
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 12:27 pm 
"moved food out of her tent to a nearby building. " This done after the first bear visit. Meanwhile, the tent is basically polluted, a bear magnet.

"food and toiletries inside and near Lokanís tent, as well as the lingering smell of cooked food from July Fourth picnic celebrations, likely played a role."

I'm not an expert but have spent a cumulative 6 months backpacking/mountaineering in grizzly country (Glacier NP).
I studied everything I could find about the bears, and also lost a fair amount of sleep on solo trips.

The big takeaway, worth passing on, is that food odors/fragrances and wind direction are huge. Space out on any of those factors and you are vulnerable.

FWIW, I've been within about 50 yards of grizzlies several times and never been bluff charged. Yet.

jaysway, Songs2, SpookyKite89
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 8755 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
Snarky Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 12:35 pm 
FWIW In Alaska it is common practice to have a separate set of clothes to wear while cooking and eating.   Typically also the tent / sleeping site is hundreds of yards away from the cooking and eating area.

Portable electric fences are also used.

As well as a double barreled shotgun with a magnum powder load and a single lead ball as the projectile.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks



Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 7050 | TRs | Pics
Location: Stuck in the middle
puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 12:49 pm 
Agree with those Alaskan habits -- especially in heavy grizzly country like in and around Denali NP. I lived in Fairbanks a few years and we bought a shotgun even though I have no interest in guns. It was mostly a sleeping aid so I could mentally relax and not stay awake worried all night. We also had bear spray, of course, but for an angry grizzly ???

--------------
Mid Fork Rocks ē flickr

Chief Joseph
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
CS
Member
Member


Joined: 04 Apr 2022
Posts: 139 | TRs | Pics
CS
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 1:01 pm 
I recall this incident being brought up as one of the rarest of rare cases, though I'm counting 13 cases involving getting dragged from a tent... which considering it's the ultimate nightmare hum...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Vertec
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Sep 2018
Posts: 118 | TRs | Pics
Vertec
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 2:36 pm 
CS wrote:
I recall this incident being brought up as one of the rarest of rare cases, though I'm counting 13 cases involving getting dragged from a tent... which considering it's the ultimate nightmare hum...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

"failure to stop" data is different from fatality data.  Yes this incident is a fatality, but ....

Fatalities are fairly well documented.  But a "failure to stop" using bear spray may not result in a human fatality.  Some failures may result in injury, or the bear just chases people off to "win" food (and wreck their day).  Or, the bear could have been stopped by other means after the bear spray failed to stop.

--------------
Out There, carrying the self-evident truth I am endowed by my Creator with unalienable rights of self-defended Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

CS
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Malachai Constant
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 15578 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny
Malachai Constant
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 6:06 pm 
I had heard the advice is to leave the area immediately after driving off the Bear with spray. It is not lethal and wears off, he will be back.

--------------
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
CS
Member
Member


Joined: 04 Apr 2022
Posts: 139 | TRs | Pics
CS
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 6:22 pm 
In the Bear Attacks book, Stephen Herrero eventually concludes going on trips with someone you can out run is the only fool proof strategy.

mosey
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Chief Joseph
Member
Member


Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 6722 | TRs | Pics
Location: Verlot-Priest Lake
Chief Joseph
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 7:52 pm 
I found the answer while hiking through grizzly bear basin in the Bob, and then over a myriad of blowdowns, and the answer is to hike until you are so exhausted that you really don't care if a bear eats you. On the way out on the trail about 50 yards ahead of me I spotted what looked to be a yearling griz before he saw me, I made a hhhhrrrruph noise and he turned tail and ran. But I never keep food in my tent, just a bad idea.

--------------
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
CS
Member
Member


Joined: 04 Apr 2022
Posts: 139 | TRs | Pics
CS
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 8:20 pm 
Chief Joseph wrote:
I found the answer while hiking through grizzly bear basin and then over a myriad of blowdowns, and the answer is to hike until you are so exhausted that you really don't care if a bear eats you.

Sounds like youíre an ideal hiking partner smile.gif

jaysway, mosey, Chief Joseph
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Chief Joseph
Member
Member


Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 6722 | TRs | Pics
Location: Verlot-Priest Lake
Chief Joseph
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 8:37 pm 
A hiking partner told me that he heard a rumor that many Back Country Rangers keep their food in their tents. Probably not true.

--------------
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Eric Hansen
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Posts: 612 | TRs | Pics
Location: Wisconsin
Eric Hansen
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 9:22 pm 
Does Stephen Herrero offer any thoughts on bear spray vs. a shotgun with slugs? I used to keep up with his research and writings but stopped about 15 years back.

I'm not a gun person but I've often wondered what the odds were that a shotgun with slugs would actually kill a grizzly (with the first shot) before the bear was on you. Just seems like a lot of the encounters I've read about began very close in and it was only a few seconds before the bear closed the distance.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Posts: 647 | TRs | Pics
Location: Newcastle
zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 9:56 pm 
Even police officers who are supposedly trained in high-stress close combat encounters miss 60-70% of their shots. (Pg. 43)

Good luck blasting a grizzly with a bulky long gun when you're startled and it's charging you down at 35mph. If you even manage to hit it, you'll probably just clip it in the shoulder and piss it off even more. Sure the bear may die from bleeding out later on, but not before it has mauled you to death, ate your face, neck, and groin, and buried you in a shallow grave.

I'll take bear spray over a gun any day. And definitely wouldn't be cooking or managing food within at least a mile of my tent in grizzly country.

One of these suits might help. Not very ultralight though.


--------------
Flickr | Strava

ejain, Now I Fly, CS
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
CS
Member
Member


Joined: 04 Apr 2022
Posts: 139 | TRs | Pics
CS
Member
PostTue Jul 19, 2022 10:11 pm 
Iíve heard itís complicatedÖ

For one, they can smell you and what youíve been eating, so your not hiding any smells, maybe reducing them. But they know. They have a significantly better sense of small than any other animal on earth itís thought.

Hanging your food disperses the scent more into the wind over greater distances. So if youíre far enough out, losing your food could make it impossible to make it back, having your food out of the wind and in a place you can try to defend it might be vital, Iíve heard of experienced people sleeping with their food in these cases.

The overall food strategy though is to be united as humans in not training any bear to associate humans with food. Once a human messes up and letís a single bear know humans are loaded, then the bear will start targeting humans, like what happened to this lady. And you have to kill the bear for it to ďunlearnĒ that, and any bears itís taught, such as cubs. Pretty bad.

The only method we have to avoid bears from making these associations is to keep food far enough away from us that if the bear finds it, it wonít figure out the human connection. And also doesnít get a reward for finding human food in general, you want it to associate human smells with not getting anything.


I had a mouse come up to me and point to where I was cooking and proceed to look me in the eye and have an animated conversation with me about sharing my food. I didnít, but Iíd assume campers had been feeding it since it was pretty bold and making eye contact. It didnít physical attack me, but it definitely knew how to make me feel bad for not sharing.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 Reply to topic
Forum Index > Trail Talk > Bear Spray failure
  Happy Birthday hopalong, Mount Logan, Solo Steve!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum