Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Forest Service considering permit for winter only ski hut at DeRoux Campground
 Reply to topic
Previous :: Next Topic
Author Message
altasnob
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 903 | TRs | Pics
Location: Tacoma
altasnob
Member
PostWed Aug 17, 2022 7:49 pm 
Comments accepted until August 19. The Okanogan Wenatchee National Forest, Cle Elum Ranger District is considering a special use permit proposal from Wenatchee Mountain Alpine Huts for a 2-year transitional priority use special use authorization for seasonal (winter) lodging facilities and guiding on the North Fork Teanaway River at DeRoux Campground on Forest Service road 9737, North Fork Teanaway Road. The facilities will be set up in November and removed completely in the spring when snow melt allows. Operations would begin when enough snow has accumulated for winter recreation activities. Four structures will sit atop wood deck platforms resting on flat ground. Each structure will be fastened to its platform. No clearing of vegetation or ground leveling is required. The two shelter huts are 14íx30í Weatherport Shelter System huts sitting on 16íx32í platforms, 1-3í off the ground. One 8íx12í wood structure will be for a sauna and for gear storage. The sauna is heated by a wood burning stove. Each platform will be constructed using 2Ēx10Ē joists with 18Ē spacing and 6"x6" subframe, supporting a total load ~20,000lbs. A wood stove in each hut is used for heat. Two cords of wood will be stored at each hut. Wood will be cut, split, and dried off National Forest lands and driven in at the beginning of each season. Two pre-fabricated 10íx4í firewood storage structures will be placed near the entrance of both huts with a roof grade greater than 30 degrees to shed snow and reduce snow load. Propane will be used for cooking. Each hut will use one 200-pound or two 100-pound propane tank(s), transported at the beginning of the season. Additional propane will be brought in using smaller tanks, if necessary. Operations are expected to occur 160 days during winter. If operating at full capacity, user days for guiding and lodging would total 1,646. No guiding will be allowed in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness. Grey water will be removed weekly. The existing CXT will be used for human waste and pumped at the cost of the permit holder at the end of the season. Porter and shuttle services will be offered for guestsí arrival and departure using a tracked side-by-side or snowmobile. Porter and shuttle services will be run early in the morning to avoid peak hours of trail usage on weekends. https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=62290

RodF
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
thunderhead
Member
Member


Joined: 14 Oct 2015
Posts: 1317 | TRs | Pics
thunderhead
Member
PostThu Aug 18, 2022 9:22 am 
Well that sounds like a sweet place to start for an xc ski weekend!

Cyclopath
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Cyclopath
Faster than light



Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 5986 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
Cyclopath
Faster than light
PostThu Aug 18, 2022 10:09 am 
thunderhead wrote:
Well that sounds like a sweet place to start for an xc ski weekend!
Ping me if you want to carpool. smile.gif

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Secret Agent Man
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2015
Posts: 165 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
Secret Agent Man
Member
PostThu Aug 18, 2022 6:58 pm 
Do they say anything about how many user days will be reserved for the guide service and its clients versus public access? A hut at Deroux is fine with me in general but Iím concerned that itíll be almost exclusively for commercial use with limited access for the public.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
altasnob
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 903 | TRs | Pics
Location: Tacoma
altasnob
Member
PostThu Aug 18, 2022 7:20 pm 
The way I understand it, this is 100% a private hut. You can't stay there unless you pay for the guide service. Maybe they will have unguided weeks, but even then, you would still pay the private company to stay there (the private company is the one who is responsible for the hut). This other thread has the backstory. But basically, the private company got Forest Service permission to put a winter-only shelter on Van Epps pass. But this pissed off the local snowmobilers because they historically use that area and they threatened to sue the Forest Service for lack of public notice and comment prior to approving the permit. This prompted the Forest Service to yank the permit they had granted. So this location is the back up plan and compromise with the snowmobile organization.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Secret Agent Man
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2015
Posts: 165 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
Secret Agent Man
Member
PostThu Aug 18, 2022 7:41 pm 
Yeah, Iím familiar with last yearís proposal, and how it would have cost $600+ per night to rent the hut, plus presumably the cost of your ski guide if they are keeping the user nights for their guided clients. I guess Iím just wondering if the location is the only concession they made or if public access is being improved in any way too. The price would be galling, for one - the Rendezvous huts in the Methow are very nice and cost a lot less, for example, to say nothing of examples like the Mt Tahoma system. I donít oppose people earning a living on our public lands but thereís a point at which you have to raise your eyebrows.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
altasnob
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 903 | TRs | Pics
Location: Tacoma
altasnob
Member
PostThu Aug 18, 2022 7:52 pm 
I think they are trying to attract mainly backcountry skiers and compete with places like the Baron yurt near Harts Pass. That costs $1,600 a person for three nights (includes heli in, food, and guide). Baron Yurt is also on private land, not Forest Service.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 8840 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
Snarky Member
PostThu Aug 18, 2022 8:23 pm 
FWIW: The Wing Ridge and Big Sheep camps in Oregon's Wallowa mountains operate on USFS land under a special use permit and allow self-guided /self-catered usage. Quite nearby in McCully basin is a Yurt camp that operates on a guided basis. Decades ago the various camps and yurts were operated by different folks, with Wing Ridge initially being more of a club operation and Mcully basin more of a guided and catered operation. But all these operations are now run by single company as the original operators have aged/sold out. https://wallowahuts.com I think at the proposed location as an operator I would want the camp to be staffed 24/7 for the 1st few seasons as I would be concerned about vandalism by snowmobile riders that I believe consider the North Fork of the Teanaway their happy high marking grounds. It will be interesting to see how backcountry skiers/split boarders based out of this camp co-exist with the existing snowmobile users extensively use the area.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 1939 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
PostSun Aug 21, 2022 3:38 pm 
Secret Agent Man wrote:
I guess Iím just wondering if the location is the only concession they made or if public access is being improved in any way too. The price would be galling, for one - the Rendezvous huts in the Methow are very nice and cost a lot less, for example, to say nothing of examples like the Mt Tahoma system. I donít oppose people earning a living on our public lands but thereís a point at which you have to raise your eyebrows.
So it sounds like maybe there are some issues around fairness and whether this should be a permitted use at all. (I'm not familiar with the history.) If it should be permitted is one thing, but in national parks, such "concessions" and other types of business go out for bid, don't they?

"There are yahoos out there. Itís why we canít have nice things." - Tom Mahood
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
altasnob
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 903 | TRs | Pics
Location: Tacoma
altasnob
Member
PostMon Aug 22, 2022 9:20 am 
Anne Elk wrote:
but in national parks, such "concessions" and other types of business go out for bid, don't they?
I can't think of comparables for what is proposed at De Roux Campground (a temporary winter only structure on National Forest lands somewhere you can drive to in the summer, but is completely removed in the summer so no one even knows there is a winter only structure there). The Wallowa huts are permanent and remain up in summer, correct? Tam Rim Yurt near Brockentop remains up in summer, correct? I like the idea of winter only structures that are completely removed in the summer. Provides winter accommodations that skiers are begging for, but in a way that doesn't detract from the summer visitor's experience. There are probably over 100 huts within 200 miles of Vancouver, BC that provide some of the best backcountry skiing on earth. But south of the border, in Oregon, and Washington, there are only a few places that provide winter accommodation near good backcountry skiing. There is a huge demand for that here. If the Forest Service did demand a bidding process I assume only the person behind the De Roux hut would be bidding. It's not like this is a major money maker. It requires a very specific expertise (backcountry skiing guiding). You also need to find a place to live in rapidly gentrifying Cle Elum/Roslyn area. If we don't cut the red tape around proposals like this, they just won't happen.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
jalepeno
Member
Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 141 | TRs | Pics
Location: Portland, OR
jalepeno
Member
PostWed Aug 24, 2022 5:52 pm 
Wallowa Mt. Huts are taken down in late spring and rebuilt in fall. I think they leave the foundations.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Randito
Snarky Member



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 8840 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment.
Randito
Snarky Member
PostWed Aug 24, 2022 6:03 pm 
De Roux campground is just a little bit up the road from Camp Wahoo which is horse riding camp operated on USFS lands under a special use permit. http://www.campwahoo.com/Programs---Features.html Given that area of the Teanaway gets significant horse and motorcycle usage in the summer, lots of ATV assisted hunting in the fall and is extremely popular with snowmobile riders in the winter. I think the big question is whether it will offer a pristine enough skiing experience to be a profitable operation that whether such usage is out of character with other current and existing usage. People aren't going do repeat trips if all the pow has been smashed by high marking slednecks.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
altasnob
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 903 | TRs | Pics
Location: Tacoma
altasnob
Member
PostWed Aug 24, 2022 6:23 pm 
Randito wrote:
People aren't going do repeat trips if all the pow has been smashed by high marking slednecks.
And the proposal says "no guiding will be allowed in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness" where all the really good skiing lies. But then again, there isn't a lot of alternatives in the Cascades, and relatively close to Seattle, so I expect it will be popular. Is there a backcountry hut in North America that is having a tough time finding customers? Most require booking a year in advance.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 Reply to topic
Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Forest Service considering permit for winter only ski hut at DeRoux Campground
  Happy Birthday Eric Hansen, cburton103!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum