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Bramble_Scramble
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Bramble_Scramble
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PostSun Dec 18, 2022 11:22 pm 
philfort wrote:
I wonder what it'll be like in the off season. Do you still need to get a permit through recreation.gov? You used to just be able to pop by the closed ranger station and self-issue, and half the time there were no permit sheets left anyway, so you didn't bother.
It looks like there's no fees in the off season. Same process as the last couple years where you fill out a form and email them. The whole $26 thing is really disappointing to me. I usually avoid national parks because of fees and regulations. NCNP has a lot of rules like the others but didn't have the fees. Now it's on par with ONP and MRNP fee-wise even though it's roads, trails, and facilities are far behind the other parks. The fact that most of that money those to a third party really bugs me. A primitive camp should never cost as much or more than camping at a developed camp. The whole thing just makes me hate the NPS more. I've avoided their lands for years and only go on special occasions where I can afford it. NCNP was special in that you avoid entrance fees and could set up a primitive camp with a permit. For now at least I can camp at Ross during the off season for free which is as much as I'll do in the park from now on.

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Huron
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Huron
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PostMon Dec 19, 2022 2:49 pm 
Does the new registration process let you go direct to trail without having to stop at the ranger station? The way it worked in the past you had to waste a good chunk of the day waiting to get a permit.

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Schroder
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PostMon Dec 19, 2022 3:23 pm 
Bramble_Scramble wrote:
The whole thing just makes me hate the NPS more. I've avoided their lands for years and only go on special occasions where I can afford it. NCNP was special in that you avoid entrance fees and could set up a primitive camp with a permit.
This is not the NPS raking in the dough. It's Booz Allen Hamilton that owns Recreation.gov and they're taking over everywhere. We just went on a long road camping trip through Oregon, California, and Arizona and got hit with $8 per transaction reservation fees and another $8 if we had to cancel. This was at National Parks, Forest Service campgrounds, State Parks, County Parks and even museums.

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jaysway
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PostTue Dec 20, 2022 6:49 am 
Huron wrote:
Does the new registration process let you go direct to trail without having to stop at the ranger station? The way it worked in the past you had to waste a good chunk of the day waiting to get a permit.
In most cases you still need to show up at the ranger station to pick up your permit. If you are traveling to an area that doesn't have an open ranger station, or are approaching SR 20 from the east, you can active your permit by calling an open ranger station and have your permit issued over the phone.

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Bramble_Scramble
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PostThu Dec 22, 2022 4:59 pm 
Huron wrote:
Does the new registration process let you go direct to trail without having to stop at the ranger station? The way it worked in the past you had to waste a good chunk of the day waiting to get a permit.
From recreation.gov: A permit is required year-round for all overnight stays in the backcountry. A backcountry permit allows the permit holder and their group to camp in a designated camp or area. Reserved permits must be picked-up in person by 11am on the start date of the trip, or the reservation will be cancelled. Approximately 60% of backcountry sites are available for advance reservation for trips during peak season, see dates below. Reservations must be made at least 2 days in advance of the trip start. The remaining 40% are issued through a walk-up permit on a first-come, first-served basis at a permit issuing station. See below for information on the Early-Access Lottery and other important dates.

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BigBrunyon
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BigBrunyon
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PostThu Dec 22, 2022 11:01 pm 
With some of these fees you can just opt out

mosey
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Chief Joseph
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Chief Joseph
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PostThu Dec 22, 2022 11:14 pm 
BigBrunyon wrote:
With some of these fees you can just opt out
True. I opted out years ago.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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forest gnome
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forest gnome
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PostFri Dec 23, 2022 10:34 am 
And yet no one is commenting on what happens when they ask for a camp permit ..and u don't have one... Tickets? For each person?..what's the discretion of the ranger?.. Will u be told to leave?... Has Anybody here ever even had those experiences with a ranger ? (north cascades, I know they are more strict in Ranier and Olympics)... How big is the fine, there are out of the way camps everywhere..just bring a bivi and don't have anything set up during the day....I'm hiking out by headlamp...for my day trip...(hikes a mile to other bivi for the night)... Next day ranger encounters u again ..I had an emergency illness or I jury in or my headlamp died and it wasn't safe to continue ... nd no I don't hike with cell phone or id

Chief Joseph
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BigBrunyon
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PostFri Dec 23, 2022 11:40 am 
This is a non issue if you wear army camo and crawl in the woods off to the side of the trail. That's what most people are doing in The Enchantments these days.

zimmertr, Chief Joseph
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zimmertr
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PostFri Dec 23, 2022 1:33 pm 
Woods? In the Enchantments? You'd be better off wearing one of these. https://www.amazon.com/mask-Goat-Antelope-Novelty-Halloween-Costume/dp/B087JX6ML8

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Carbonj
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PostFri Dec 23, 2022 2:44 pm 
That mask with a Borat thong, no problems with any rangers!

zimmertr
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MangyMarmot
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MangyMarmot
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PostFri Dec 23, 2022 3:34 pm 
I've done a number of trips to NCNP. During all these trips, I've seen a ranger only one time and they never asked for a permit. I'm not paying for a backcountry permit.

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Randito
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Randito
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PostFri Dec 23, 2022 5:00 pm 
forest gnome wrote:
How big is the fine
Up to $5000 per person. The Leavenworth ranger station's main source of revenue is administering the Enchantment permit scheme and they spend big dough using a helicopter to haul barrels of poop out from the toilets they provide. So I think the rangers are pretty motivated to effectively police their permit system. Through hiking the Enchantments in a day is a popular way to not need an overnight permit. A less popular way for those wanting a bit more relaxed ramble in the high country is to camp outside the permit area on the flats of Crystal Creek and day hike the high country. It is longer and more of a scramble than going via Colchuck lake, but parking at Stafford Creek or Ingalls Creek trailheads aren't as crowded and chaotic. Or spend a day on I-90 heading east to the Beartooths in MT which are like the Enchantments, but 100x bigger with 1000x fewer people.

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peter707
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peter707
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PostMon Dec 26, 2022 9:04 pm 
Randito wrote:
A less popular way for those wanting a bit more relaxed ramble in the high country is to camp outside the permit area on the flats of Crystal Creek and day hike the high country.
I've done this twice, and can confirm it's by-the-book. Once via ingalls creek + bushwhack, and the second time via colchuck lake trailhead + drop down from crystal lake. I got 'pulled over' the time I went in from colchuck parking lot starting at 1pm. I pointed out where I was camping on the ranger map. The ranger stated that they would send someone down the crystal creek drainage to check I was far enough down. I nodded and off we went.[1] They also surveyed which peaks we were going to tag the next day. It's unlikely that anyone would be in the core zone while camping too close - most of that gulley is pretty wind exposed and perhaps rockfall exposed. Best to go far down and take shelter behind the trees, lest a person ends up chasing a 'rei half-dome' (more like 'rei full sail') flying around at 10pm. [1] I find it hard to believe a ranger walks down from the core to check the distance. Too much choss-filled loose rock. Tons of easy pickings from exhausted day hikers bedding down in core / snow lake zone to talk to instead.

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slabbyd
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PostWed Dec 28, 2022 8:59 am 
forest gnome wrote:
And yet no one is commenting on what happens when they ask for a camp permit ..and u don't have one... Tickets? For each person?..what's the discretion of the ranger?.. Will u be told to leave?...
I know a guy who got busted years back in NCNP while exiting from a multiday technical traverse without a permit. They got fined, contested it in court for some reason, the judge was not amused. Cost their broke asses some money. Maybe you're the super belligerent type and think you'll argue/bluster your way out of a ticket. Have fun with that, should be a great trip.

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