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philfort
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philfort
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PostMon Sep 26, 2022 12:12 pm 
MBSNF has been really bad at communicating. Their website still lists all districts as VERY HIGH, but I swear I passed a sign in the past few weeks that said MODERATE (or at the very least HIGH). The link on their website for "Current Campfire Restrictions" links to an website that doesn't exist. Seems like there are some organizational/leadership issues at MBSNF.

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kiliki
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PostThu Sep 29, 2022 12:25 pm 
^^^ This has been driving me nuts! No burn bans during the red flag warning for MBSNF, you have to really dig on the website to find out whether there is or isn't...It doesn't not seem like it would be that hard to carpet bomb the Puget Sound area with NO FIRES info (highway readerboards, other electronic signs, regular signs, social media). And we know Bolt Creek was human caused, like, what, 85-90% of wildfires now? Do they even care?

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Bruce Albert
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PostThu Sep 29, 2022 1:37 pm 
The east side seems to have grasped the need for clear and unambiguous information with the big sign as you come down the Ray Rock grade on US 2. A problem locally is closely intertwined jurisdictions with occasionally conflicting messages. Withing a stones throw of my house, besides the UGA/non-UGA silliness there are both DNR and USFS jurisdictions plus I think the Fire Marshall chipping in their .02 depending on which exact patch of land you are standing on. These restrictions can take several trips down various rabbit holes to find, and they do not always agree. Meanwhile out in the real world it's too dry for any sort of safe outdoor burning, and I wish they could all get their heads together and clearly message that with one voice

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Ski
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PostFri Sep 30, 2022 8:51 am 
kiliki wrote:
Do they even care?
Maybe they've resigned themselves to the facts that (a) the entire western US is going to continue to burn for the next 50 years or so, until things get "balanced out" again and (b) Americans become increasingly more stupid each day, and they've just decided to conserve their resources rather than get all lathered up about it.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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kiliki
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 2:13 pm 
It would be nice if MBSNF would care at least as much as other NFs do. At least with a fire ban, if not a forest closure when things are truly dire: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-juan-national-forest-closed-extreme-fire-danger-2018-06-12/ Not that that solves everything. I still can't get over last year's Cub Creek fire, started by a guy using a propane torch during a red flag warning and with county and state burn bans. As far as I can tell he suffered zero consequences. None were publicized anyway.

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Malachai Constant
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 2:47 pm 
Debbie's "View"

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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zimmertr
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 8:14 pm 
Schroder wrote:
CC wrote:
The cause was a vehicle fire on a FS road and they know who did it.
What's your source? This is the only place I've seen this.
Seattle Times is now corraborating it was at least human caused. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/evacuations-lift-near-bolt-creek-fire-but-smoke-still-headed-to-seattle/

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altasnob
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 9:27 pm 
kiliki wrote:
I still can't get over last year's Cub Creek fire, started by a guy using a propane torch during a red flag warning and with county and state burn bans. As far as I can tell he suffered zero consequences. None were publicized anyway.
What should happen to the guy? The most relevant criminal statute would be Reckless Burning, a gross misdemeanor. He was apparently trying to heat up a plastic pipe with a propane torch to fit over a metal pipe in his irrigation line. I don't think his actions were criminal. This article says the Attorney General's office was considering pursuing cost recovery. https://methowvalleynews.com/2021/11/03/dnr-cub-creek-2-fire-caused-by-propane-torch/

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Chief Joseph
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PostSat Oct 01, 2022 10:24 pm 
SpookyKite89 wrote:
On my way out of the Mountain Loop this weekend, I stopped at one of the riverside campsites to have a look at the view and as I passed the obligatory dummy fire ring, I could feel heat coming off of it on my legs. I ran to my car and emptied out what water I had left over on the thing and stirred it as it smoldered. Passed a bunch of other dummies with large fires going on the warm (and still light out) afternoon. Super annoying. As I passed the ranger station on the way back, they had their fire warning signs just done for the season...no info. Ugh.
No surprise, my neighbor told me that his neighbor was letting off mortars last week. When they fired the 2nd one he yelled at them to not do that and they subsided. Then a few years back out here during a total burn ban, another neighbor has a 7' high bonfire. The fire Marshalls showed up, put the fire out and the guy was no where to be found and never received a citation as far as I know. We (or they) are our own worst enemies. (obviously).

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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treeswarper
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PostSun Oct 02, 2022 1:04 pm 
kiliki wrote:
Not that that solves everything. I still can't get over last year's Cub Creek fire, started by a guy using a propane torch during a red flag warning and with county and state burn bans. As far as I can tell he suffered zero consequences. None were publicized anyway.
Doesn't matter about red flag. What was the industrial fire precaution level for that day? Then, it has to be proved that the guy was negligent, and that can be difficult even if it seems obvious. Is this the guy that pulled a gun on the first fire folks who showed up and he didn't want them on his land?

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Bruce Albert
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PostSun Oct 02, 2022 1:28 pm 
Not the Cub Creek incident, but on September 10 I checked and I think the IFPL for the Zone covering the Bolt Creek fire area was a III.

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altasnob
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altasnob
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PostSun Oct 02, 2022 4:08 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
Doesn't matter about red flag. What was the industrial fire precaution level for that day? Then, it has to be proved that the guy was negligent, and that can be difficult even if it seems obvious.
I was curious about this. Can you use a propane torch to fix things on your property when there is a county burn ban and red flag warning? I believe the answer is "yes."

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treeswarper
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PostSun Oct 02, 2022 5:23 pm 
After reading more, the IFPL may or may not apply. Note that it says other operations (non logging) need to follow the rules listed in the bottom right hand of the brochure. They are vague and mention cigarettes, fireworks, and chainsaws. https://www.dnr.wa.gov/publications/rp_burn_ifpl_brochure.pdf This one mentions welding. https://www.dnr.wa.gov/publications/rp_fire_ifpl2.pdf

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Bruce Albert
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PostSun Oct 02, 2022 5:24 pm 
altasnob wrote:
I was curious about this. Can you use a propane torch to fix things on your property when there is a county burn ban and red flag warning? I believe the answer is "yes."
I’m curious as well, and I suspect you’re correct, although it may be an unintentional loophoole. Under IFPL welding and cutting of metal is permitted through Level 3 under certain conditions. IFPL applies to “logging, land clearing and industrial operations”. As a matter of personal responsibility beyond IFPL I would weld or grind away from cleared mineral soil right now only if charged hose present, area throughly wetted before and after, and 1 hour fire watch maintained after completion of work. Same for propane torch use near combustibles. I now need to dig into the specifics of burn bans. i think I’ve seen that in some jurisdictions even charcoal BBQs are not allowed. If “Red Flag” imposes additional restrictions I am unaware of them. It seems to be more of a NWS thing.

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Pyrites
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PostSun Oct 02, 2022 7:18 pm 
Those under construction apartment complexes you see headed downwind on the 11 o’clock news? Propane torch is a common ignition source. It’s boring to wait a half hour after, then look really well for embers or smoldering.

Keep Calm and Carry On? Heck No. Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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