Forum Index > Trail Talk > Drones in the backcountry, and other obnoxious technologies
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pula58
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pula58
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PostFri May 14, 2021 4:28 pm 
I hope this doesn't devolve into a locked thread, like with dogs and dog poop bags, but, I am getting increasingly distressed by the use of drones in the mountains. I wonder if there is a future in which we can have peace, and quiet, and escape the incessant/insidious technology of our society. The way it is going I have my doubts. When I was younger, and learned about backpacking, our teachers told us, and I think wisely, to be quiet, and leave no trace, so that others could enjoy the peace and the feeling of discovery. They taught us that "leave no trace" was not just about leaving no garbage behind. It was also about trying to stay invisible and quiet.."be no trace." Camp far from others, keep it quiet so that others can enjoy the peace, hearing the wind blow. So, flying drones, cell phone loudspeakers, blabbing into cell phones using loudspeaker that people can hear from 50' away...please, I strongly encourage us all to refrain from such things.

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Randito
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PostFri May 14, 2021 4:51 pm 
Flying a drone is illegal within wilderness boundaries, but it doesn't stop people. I hiked to Snow Lake a few summers ago on a Thursday and somebody was using a large commercial grade drone to take photos of the lake and Chair peak. It was significantly louder than the drones commonly available on Amazon or at Costco. But flight time was still thankfully limited. Sadly drone jammers with any useful range are very spendy and also illegal.

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Anne Elk
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PostFri May 14, 2021 4:53 pm 
Drones are almost understandable, given the photography aspect, but it would be disturbing to have someone running one for a long time, hovering over your camp, etc. I was horrified when I read in some thread a year or more ago a member complaining that some people were actually taking their tunes and the modern digital equivalent of a boom box backpacking, and playing it loudly in campsites. It's part of the modern epidemic of self-absorption, bad manners and inconsiderateness. But I repeat myself. Were I in an area where the thing which should not be spoken of was legal to have guns.gif and I had a carry permit, I would be tempted to march over, confiscate the offending music device, and use it as a clay bird, or some other such practice target. But of course I'd ask nice for silence, first. hockeygrin.gif

"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Brian R
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PostFri May 14, 2021 5:12 pm 
Anne Elk wrote:
Were I in an area where the thing which should not be spoken of was legal to have guns.gif and I had a carry permit, I would be tempted to march over, confiscate the offending music device, and use it as a clay bird, or some other such practice target.
The thing you speak of is completely legal to own and carry openly, no permit required--most anywhere in this state or in any national park within this state. Even concealed, in the backcountry, no CPL is required. (Unless you have a felony criminal record or are under a domestic restraining order which, in your case, I highly doubt. smile.gif ) It is, however, illegal to discharge it in a national park other than in defense of your life or the lives of others. So, unless the drone is armed with hellfire missiles and bearing down on you, I'd refrain. Especially since there is almost certainly a 4K video of your actions. Yes, they're obnoxious gadgets in the wild. My fear, on one hand, is that land managers will start using drones as a backcountry enforcement tool. On the other hand, they seem like they could prove valuable in certain rescue scenarios, eg, dropping off food, water, radio, first aid until groundies arrive.

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pula58
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PostFri May 14, 2021 5:25 pm 
Anne Elk wrote:
It's part of the modern epidemic of self-absorption, bad manners and inconsiderateness.
exactly.

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Anne Elk
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PostFri May 14, 2021 5:40 pm 
Randito wrote:
Sadly drone jammers with any useful range are very spendy and also illegal.
Cost issue aside, they'd have to catch you using it. Who knows why drones just "fall out of the sky"? Operator error happens all the time.

"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Schroder
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PostFri May 14, 2021 5:52 pm 
It's the best search and rescue tool I've seen come out in the past 50 years

YF65CH53E
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Cyclopath
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PostFri May 14, 2021 10:02 pm 
Anne Elk wrote:
Cost issue aside, they'd have to catch you using it.
It's my understanding the really good drones take a GPS record of their flight and send that data to their overseas makers for diagnostic reasons. They don't care about enforcing or flight laws, but that data could make catching a person in the act a thing of the past...
Randito wrote:
Flying a drone is illegal within wilderness boundaries, but it doesn't stop people.
I could be wrong, but I think the rule is you can't take off or land a drone in the Wilderness, but you can stand on the border and fly in. Like you said, flight time is limited so that lets it get 15? minutes in. Which is unfortunately the same distance as three hours of hiking. frown.gif

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jinx'sboy
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PostFri May 14, 2021 10:35 pm 
Cyclopath wrote:
Randito wrote:
Flying a drone is illegal within wilderness boundaries, but it doesn't stop people.
I could be wrong, but I think the rule is you can't take off or land a drone in the Wilderness, but you can stand on the border and fly in.
Yes, that is correct. The relevant regulation is 36CFR 261.18. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/36/261.18 ‘Flying’ over a NF wilderness is not illegal (although the FAA regs - and their regularly updated maps - do have a message about ‘please stay above 1500’ AGL’). But, as the regulation points out, possessing or taking off/landing an a/c IS illegal. I think NPS regulations are different - both over Parks in general and in NPS managed Wilderness.

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cdestroyer
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PostSat May 15, 2021 5:54 am 
jinx'boy you are wrong, flight over a wilderness is not allowed..... UAS are considered “mechanized” equipment and aircraft -- and consequently cannot fly over, take off from, or land in, congressionally designated Wilderness Areas. uas=unmanned aerial system here is the regulation: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/okawen/alerts-notices/?cid=fseprd507869

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altasnob
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PostSat May 15, 2021 6:42 am 
I think cdestroyer is right. Otherwise, I think I have a lawsuit I need to file. From the Wilderness Act: "A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain." - Howard Zahniser

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Waterman
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PostSat May 15, 2021 7:08 am 
Anne Elk, Great idea for target practice on drones, not so much on boom boxes. If you wear sturdy enough boots a well placed kick through the trees should do it.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost
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stever
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PostSat May 15, 2021 9:53 am 
My least favorite which I experienced this morning.....a person yapping on their cell phone with it on speaker. I could hear the person coming from a long ways away. Its bad enough they have to yap on their cell phone on a trail but putting it on speaker to boot. AAARRRGGGHHHH! SR

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Schroder
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PostSat May 15, 2021 10:20 am 
cdestroyer wrote:
flight over a wilderness is not allowed..... UAS are considered “mechanized” equipment and aircraft -- and consequently cannot fly over, take off from, or land in, congressionally designated Wilderness Areas.
Nope. That statement is wrong. They can't take off or land but there is no regulation prohibiting flyover, which is controlled by the FAA. Same with aircraft. They are requested to maintain 2000 ft above ground but not required (or else we'd never see a Navy jet fly fly through Glacier Peak Wilderness).

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Randito
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PostSat May 15, 2021 10:54 am 
The nitpicking over what the exact CFR concerning drone/wildreness regulations is misguided -- the precise meaning of the rules will only be clarified in court after a ranger issued a citation to a drone operator for violating the rules and the drone operator challenged the citation in court. I think the chances of that happening are pretty slim. I've seen wilderness rangers on patrol only once in recent years -- that time they were having a "friendly chat" with some folks that had set up their tent within two feet of the shoreline of Lower Robin lake. After that chat they had about 20 other folks to chat with camped along the stream running between the upper and lower lake.

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