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treeswarper
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PostTue Oct 25, 2022 7:56 pm 
Most people were able to figure out the chainlink electrified enclosure too. Open gate, close gate. It isn't rocket science, one kept one's garbage in a secure place--in a building and then moved it to the enclosure where the garbage truck collected it. In Leavenworth, I would not be surprised if a few folks were intentionally feeding bears.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Chief Joseph
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PostTue Oct 25, 2022 8:33 pm 
Yes, you are likely correct Treeswarper (quote function not working)....I have a neighbor in Idaho that feeds wildlife in order to photograph them. My Mom would feed seeds and bread to the birds and squirells and then get mad when the turkeys and bears would show up....although she did get a great photo of a cinnamon bear cub hugging a tree next to her deck. I don't feed them except in winter when the bears are asleep.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Downhill
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PostTue Oct 25, 2022 9:34 pm 
I'm heartbroken for the momma sow and her cubs frown.gif

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Bruce Albert
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PostTue Oct 25, 2022 9:37 pm 
Ski wrote:
It's well documented that bears in California State Park have removed doors from automobiles in instances where they were able to get claws in between the vehicle door and the body (or door pillars.)
It is not necessary to go that far from home for an example. My next door neighbor lost a truck window over couple of packages of Pop Tarts right here in Hamburger Flats. Happy bear, for a spell, living the dream with a digestive tract plugged with plastic bags...until he got shot The weak link I see with the "keep temptation from bears" approach to bear management is that it has to be pretty universally applied to succeed; one outright slob, or one careless individual, or one careless act by an otherwise responsible individual is apt to set a bear off on a search for pork shop heaven that is apt to end poorly. Once having tasted teriyaki a bear is unlikely to prefer....ant larvae...for a meal, and it would be hard to blame them. That's why I'm recently pushing on an approach in which outright unfriendliness...taking overt action repeatedly to make the animal get that it is unwelcome, that humans are to be avoided, is a component. Not too many years ago a bear who poked its head out in a populated area was apt to get shot. They learned that and were as a result very shy, just as they are now learning that we pose no threat. As humans and bears compete with one another for finite space it is inevitable that there will be encounters and that some of those encounters will end poorly for the bear, the human, or in this case for both. The fact that this sucks does not lessen the fact that such things will happen. With an estimated 25,000 bears in Washington State you're never far away. Relocation, I submit, is just feel-good nonbeneficial bullsh##. Judging from the population statistic above most bear habitat is apt to already have a bear living in it. I've never met a relocated bear, but I did once meet a relocated Olympic goat walking up road 63(?) in the canyon below Quartz Creek. Miles from home, miles from goat habitat, probably doomed, wearing a big ass tracking collar, and plodding along looking as bummed as I've ever seen an animal look, she was definitely headed...somewhere. We made eye contact as we passed, definitely not a Bambi moment. I was like "Sorry, Nanny" and she was more like "f### you. I did not gore anyone, and I just want to go home." I've always wondered how that story played out.

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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 6:45 am 
I had relatives who lived on the Oregon Coast and were bothered by raccoons. My uncle hooked up an electric fence charger to the metal cans and that kept the coons out, but one had to remember to unplug it when putting garbage in. Now we have plastic cans.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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jinx'sboy
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 7:06 am 
treeswarper wrote:
In Leavenworth, I would not be surprised if a few folks were intentionally feeding bears.
Yes, and even though it is illegal - and has been for quite a while - some hunters do use food to get bears coming in to a certain spot on a regular basis. A half a bin of semi-rotten apples, or a few packages of day old glazed donuts seemed to be the bait of choice, judging by what I致e run across in the woods.

Ski
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altasnob
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 7:50 am 
Bruce Albert wrote:
As humans and bears compete with one another for finite space it is inevitable that there will be encounters and that some of those encounters will end poorly for the bear, the human, or in this case for both. The fact that this sucks does not lessen the fact that such things will happen.
If Americans would stop moving to the wildland-urban interface in droves, and instead live in the cities where they belong, we wouldn't have this problem. But everyone has to live in the woods, with a view, and animals frolicking out their back door. Why is it every bear attack I read about in Washington it always is near someone's home? Like the Bellevue City Council member who lost his eye taking out the garbage at his vacation house on Lake Wenatchee. I have zero concern a bear will ever attack me in Washington when I am out hiking and backpacking. But if I live in the woods the odds seem to increase dramatically.

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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 8:22 am 
I wouldn't call Leavenworth, the woods. It's been there a while and was most likely also a place for the original (pre European) inhabitants to live during the summer. When I lived in Wisconsin, there was starting to be a discussion about bear baiting, which was legal. The discussion was about a theory that maybe bears who survived eating at bait areas then learned to associate the smell of humans with food as that smell was on whatever the "bait" was, and then would become problem bears. I don't know if there was any outcome.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Bruce Albert
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 8:46 am 
altasnob wrote:
If Americans would stop moving to the wildland-urban interface in droves, and instead live in the cities where they belong, we wouldn't have this problem. But everyone has to live in the woods, with a view, and animals frolicking out their back door.
Logic fail. There will always be a "wildland-urban" interface, no matter where it is drawn, and people and critters will always have to coexist there. Yes, there will continue to be challenges, and yes, there will continue to be sad outcomes. Both of these things have always been true. Deal with it. The fact that the urban part keeps getting bigger while the wildland part shrinks is part of a pretty broad topic, but as pointed out above, Blackbird Island is hardly deep in the woods and has not been for some time.

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Randito
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 8:57 am 
Bruce Albert wrote:
They learned that and were as a result very shy, just as they are now learning that we pose no threat.
I think its less case of bears learning that people aren't a threat than it is that when bears are shot on sight in populated areas they aren't around any more. Black bear populations are pretty robust, killing them when they are present in areas of human habitation is not a problem in terms of the species doing well. Hopefully those expressing horror at killing bears are already vegetarian or vegan -- otherwise why no tears for cattle, chickens and pigs?

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altasnob
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 9:05 am 
Bruce Albert wrote:
Logic fail. There will always be a "wildland-urban" interface, no matter where it is drawn, and people and critters will always have to coexist there. Yes, there will continue to be challenges, and yes, there will continue to be sad outcomes. Both of these things have always been true. Deal with it.
treeswarper wrote:
I wouldn't call Leavenworth, the woods.
Leavenworth has always been a town. But the surrounding area is exploding with new development in recent years, at least relatively speaking. Places that were forests now have homes. The homes bring bears closer to town. It's also more likely a bear comes across a home in their natural migration, and is lured in further by the forbidden fruit of rotten garbage. The attack at Lake Wenatchee was in the woods and was just a vacation home for the victim. There are homes everywhere out there now.

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 10:06 am 
Randito wrote:
Hopefully those expressing horror at killing bears are already vegetarian or vegan -- otherwise why no tears for cattle, chickens and pigs?
We're at the logical fallacies stage of the thread now.

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Randito
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 10:16 am 
Cyclopath wrote:
Randito wrote:
Hopefully those expressing horror at killing bears are already vegetarian or vegan -- otherwise why no tears for cattle, chickens and pigs?
We're at the logical fallacies stage of the thread now.
The logical fallacy being that a bear's life has more value than a cow's. Even though the bear might injure or kill a human child in the child's neighborhood.

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 10:21 am 
Randito wrote:
The logical fallacy being that a bear's life has more value than a cow's. Even though the bear might injure or kill a human child in the child's neighborhood.
Nice whataboutism. It may be your opinion that a cow and bear are equal in value. Don't go confusing your opinions for facts. You do that a lot.

Navy salad, Chief Joseph  Ski
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Bruce Albert
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PostWed Oct 26, 2022 11:58 am 
Randito wrote:
Drunk, lazy, physically limited and just plain dumb humans will only put so much effort into figuring out and operating a "bear proof" garbage container before giving up and leaving their garage beside the garbage container, where it's easy pickings for bears, crows, raccoons and rats.
I could not possibly have imagined the stark reality of being 'physically limited' until it reared up to show its face and take hold. Buddy, in case you missed out that's an 'Uh, Oh' moment for a lifetime if there ever was one, posing more numerous and more vexing challenges than the occasional bear ever could. While I am dealing with the realities of my situation surprisingly well, I resent being lumped in with the drunk, the lazy, and the stupid, and I still manage to get my garbage in the can.

treeswarper, zimmertr
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