Forum Index > Trail Talk > Owner & dog shot and killed in Lewis Co.
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Bosterson
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Bosterson
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PostWed Apr 19, 2023 8:35 pm 
Please keep in mind that this tiny thing is the dog we're talking about here.

Go! Take a gun! And a dog! Without a leash! Chop down a tree! Start a fire! Piss wherever you want! Build a cairn! A HUGE ONE! BE A REBEL! YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE! (-bootpathguy)
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catsp
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catsp
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PostWed Apr 19, 2023 9:03 pm 
Bosterson wrote:
Please keep in mind that this tiny thing is the dog we're talking about here.
I understand that’s apparently a picture of the dog. I’m not aware if that represents the size of the dog at the time of the shooting. Either way, in trying to separate what’s actually “known” from presumption or speculation, I don’t mean to in any way suggest that the shooting was warranted.

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Vertec
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PostWed Apr 19, 2023 9:24 pm 
catsp wrote:
Vertec wrote:
From what the article describes (dog on a leash)
Apparently the report stated the dog had "a leash and harness still attached to him." I have not read anything to indicate that the dog was also connected to the owner.
Doesn't matter. Dog on a leash = domesticated animal, which is not in the "Lions and Tigers and Bears (oh my)" threat class. So unless the dog is in some sort of hyper crazy attack mode, I'm not going to harm it even if it tries to bite me. A minor dog bite is not worth making a loud bang (too much paper work). Just get a hold of the leash and tie it up. But instead the guy was too busy retrieving / preparing his "solution", which likely escalated a panicked "tunnel vision" mindset and caused him to act before gaining situational awareness. I could go into this more in the "other thread" but probably not going to waste keystrokes. Flashlight advise was all I'm willing to share on this forum with the hope I don't get hit in the dark. I don't care if you all go down while digging through your backpack for a solution, which will probably be bear spray anyway. Interesting story from the very first climb I did after becoming properly "prepared": About 1500 feet up from the trail head I came face to face with an off leash stout European Doberman in full "alarm mode". Absolutely beautiful animal. The owners were a switchback behind (at least) so the dog was showing signs of stress. Instead of becoming panicked I was completely calm and relaxed because I knew for a fact I had the means to protect myself if the dog tried to attack me. Knowing that would have been a terrible situation contributed to me feeling sorry for the poor dog. I'm absolutely certain the dog sensed my calmness/confidence because it immediately calmed down. When the owners caught up it was rolled on its back getting a tummy rub from me. They apologized profusely, but seemed dumbfounded things were under control and the dog was behaving so well. When I got home that evening I told my wife I gave a tummy rub to a land shark. She loves Dobermans. So NO! We all don't "just look for an excuse" to use it.

Out There, carrying the self-evident truth I am endowed by my Creator with unalienable rights of self-defended Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
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fourteen410
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PostWed Apr 19, 2023 10:01 pm 
catsp wrote:
I understand that’s apparently a picture of the dog. I’m not aware if that represents the size of the dog at the time of the shooting
The dog was a four month old puppy. It was small. It wouldn't surprise me if Aron dropped the leash when he was shot. Speculation of course, but I doubt we'll ever have evidence either way considering what a cluster F this investigation has been.

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catsp
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catsp
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 5:30 am 
fourteen410 wrote:
The dog was a four month old puppy. It was small.
If you say so. Large enough for a multi-day hike, whatever that might imply. But I have no real idea myself.
fourteen410 wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if Aron dropped the leash when he was shot. Speculation of course...
Based on the supposed time of the shooting that would surprise me. What wouldn't surprise me is if the leash had been dropped long before the incident as a result of a medical situation. That is just speculation too of course, even if of likely higher quality.

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catsp
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catsp
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 5:51 am 
The night is dark and full of terrors.
Vertec wrote:
Doesn't matter. Dog on a leash = domesticated animal, which is not in the "Lions and Tigers and Bears (oh my)" threat class.
Agree to disagree as a general proposition.
Vertec wrote:
Interesting story from the very first climb I did after becoming properly "prepared" ...
Agree to disagree.
Vertec wrote:
We all don't "just look for an excuse" to use it.
Obviously. In any event, there are (at least) two parts of this. One is whether the shooting was warranted (or any number of words we might use). I'd think most people would agree that it should not have happened, though our reasons/explanations might widely vary. The second part is whether the shooting constitutes a criminal act, and whether the shooter should be criminally punished. This is arguably made significantly more difficult because it appears the initial investigation was done poorly. Of course, that's mostly speculation as well, because we don't know whether a proper investigation would've altered the narrative in any material way.

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Slugman
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 10:02 am 
If someone proved to catsp 100% by showing the actual dog on the day in question, the response would be “if you say so, I have no idea”. embarassedlaugh.gif Funny how someone can have an unshakable belief that they know nothing and never will. But then they post on and on and on about that very subject.

gb  catsp
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Vertec
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Vertec
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 10:46 am 
catsp wrote:
The night is dark and full of terrors.
I don't believe that, but I understand some people are afraid of the dark.
catsp wrote:
Vertec wrote:
Doesn't matter. Dog on a leash = domesticated animal, which is not in the "Lions and Tigers and Bears (oh my)" threat class.
Agree to disagree as a general proposition.
The fact is the dog was NOT a threat. The shooter failed to properly identify it. Think about the valuable time it took to retrieve and prepare his "solution" - this likely drew attention away from the animal AND caused the need for HIM to reacquire it. Proper training teaches techniques to remain focused on the possible threat to further identify and confirm before taking lethal action.
catsp wrote:
Vertec wrote:
Interesting story from the very first climb I did after becoming properly "prepared" ...
Agree to disagree.
Ummm.. there's nothing to agree or disagree with regarding my dog story. The stressed pooch enjoyed a tummy rub instead of getting holes poked in it. Also keep in mind you quoted my post from that "other thread" in this thread. I understand the rules regarding what can and cannot be discussed outside that "other thread". Replying in this thread seems to afford you some sort of safe space I guess?

Out There, carrying the self-evident truth I am endowed by my Creator with unalienable rights of self-defended Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
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Cyclopath
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 10:52 am 
catsp wrote:
Large enough for a multi-day hike, whatever that might imply. But I have no real idea myself.
Whatever you're trying to imply and have no idea about, just say it. You don't need to hide.

catsp
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catsp
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catsp
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 12:35 pm 
I apologize for my efforts at nuance, specificity, and most of all, for acknowledging the limits of what I think I know. I realize that many of you don't suffer from such afflictions and maladies, so I appreciate your compassion and understanding given my limitations. The pic posted shows a very small dog that likely couldn't even sound capable of harm, much less be capable of inflicting any. I assumed (though (sorry!) I don't know) that that's not the size of the dog at the time of the shooting. If that is the size of the dog at the time of the shooting, then yikes, it seems problematic for the narrative. If not, then I openly acknowledge that I have no idea how large a dog of that breed might be at 4 months or whatever it was, and to what extent (if any) it might plausibly sound threatening. There is probably some actual factual info on this posted somewhere, but notwithstanding the certainty and vehemence with which various opinions are stated here, there's none that I've seen on this thread. Still, this clearly leaves open the distinct possibly that these (your) various opinions are correct.
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"The fact is the dog was NOT a threat," etc., etc., things should've been differently etc., etc., proper training ...
Likely all or mostly true, and likely all or mostly irrelevant. That is, irrelevant to whether the shooter has criminal responsibility. But on the question of whether this should've ever happened, I've made it clear that I don’t mean to in any way suggest that the shooting was warranted.
Quote:
"Also keep in mind you quoted my post from that 'other thread' in this thread. ... Replying in this thread seems to afford you some sort of safe space I guess?"
LOL, I'm not even sure what this means, though I have to admit, I do enjoy a safe space! (But who doesn't, right?) I quoted that part of your comment from the other thread to the extent it was applicable here. My response wouldn't have been relevant in the other thread. But in either thread I'd have no problem saying that I applaud anyone who takes the time and effort to secure relevant skills for the proper, safe and thoughtful handling of firearms - something which appears to have been lacking in the tragic situation here.

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kiliki
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 12:40 pm 
Cattle Dogs are 30-ish lbs full grown. Not big.

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fourteen410
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 2:02 pm 
Speculating whether the dog was a threat or not assumes that the shooter is telling the truth about the encounter. I don't believe he is.

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trestle
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 7:47 pm 
The DA declined to prosecute. This is a travesty at the least. Meanwhile, also in Lewis County, a sheriff failed to discover a dead body in a burned out and abandoned car. It was found a few days later by the tow-truck driver who hauled the car out of the woods. I've changed my summer plans.

"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode

The Ghost of Bear 380, fourteen410
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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostSat Apr 22, 2023 7:59 am 
Heelers, and that is the breed in the picture, are on my most likely to bite list. MY list. They tend to sneak up from behind and nip you. Not all, just like not all Lewis County people are rednecks. That's what the dogs are wired to do, and what the term Heeler means. Sneak up behind a cow and nip it to get it going. It depends a bit on how it is trained, but around here, mean people have mean dogs. The billboard and tacky store don't really have anything to do with this. I've got a good friend who lives in that part of the world and his appearance scares the lost people to death. The guy is a big teddy bear and would help you as long as you don't insult him. Or insist that your cell phone works and that's all you need to find your way out. Lewis County never has had a very good sheriff and luckily these shootings haven't come up too much. Not sure who won the election, but it was close.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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fourteen410
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PostSat Apr 22, 2023 8:45 am 
treeswarper wrote:
Heelers, and that is the breed in the picture, are on my most likely to bite list. MY list. They tend to sneak up from behind and nip you.
Assuming the shooter's story is true (unlikely), this had nothing to do with the dog nipping anyone.

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