Forum Index > Trail Talk > Cougars dont discriminate between wild & domestic
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Bootpathguy
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PostSun Nov 06, 2022 1:41 pm 
Keep your dog companions leashed Really interesting article https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/cougars-killing-wolves-in-washington/

Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want

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PostSun Nov 06, 2022 1:50 pm 
really begs the question of "Do we NEED another apex predator that's not REALLY the apex predator?" just sayin' . "Sometimes the best course of action is no action at all." - Harry Cody, District Ranger, Randle Ranger District, GPNF

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostSun Nov 06, 2022 2:31 pm 
If the wolf had a leash attached to the tracking collar, it'd be OK?

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities

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PostSun Nov 06, 2022 2:44 pm 

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thunderhead
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PostSun Nov 06, 2022 4:43 pm 
Pound for pound its hard to beat a cat in a fight.

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Secret Agent Man
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PostSun Nov 06, 2022 5:58 pm 
thunderhead wrote:
Pound for pound its hard to beat a cat in a fight.
Forget pound for pound, I have lost fights to my house cat.

Chief Joseph, Doomgoggles, thunderhead  Ski
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PowderPawn
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PostMon Nov 07, 2022 12:50 am 
Interesting because you would think that the cougar is often going to have to deal with the entire pack.

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gb
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PostMon Nov 07, 2022 5:20 am 
Cats are incredibly athletic. I read one time that a Cougar could make a standing leap of 20', drop 60' from a tree without being hurt, and reach full speed in three strides. For what it is worth, even in my youth I could not do that....

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PostMon Nov 07, 2022 7:21 am 
gb wrote:
Cats are incredibly athletic. I read one time that a Cougar could make a standing leap of 20'…
I recall watching a ‘nature’ program on big cats….and the presenter asked some zoologist type; “So, how far can this leopard jump?”. The guy looked at him like it was the dumbest question in the world, and said ; “As far as she needs to”.

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PostTue Nov 08, 2022 6:43 am 
Ski wrote:
really begs the question of "Do we NEED another apex predator that's not REALLY the apex predator?" just sayin' . "Sometimes the best course of action is no action at all." - Harry Cody, District Ranger, Randle Ranger District, GPNF
Answer to your question is "NO" we have too many predators as it is

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PostTue Nov 08, 2022 7:05 am 
The only way to reduce the number of "apex" predators is to issue fewer hunting licenses. In Montana, full public access was finally established into the Big Snowy Mountains. The elk population had increased to 900% of the management goal due to lack of hunter access. There was a debate on a previous thread about whether it was wild predators or hunters that was keeping the elk population down in the Wallowas, I think the inadvertent Big Snowy experiment in Montana gives us the best answer we have.

Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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treeswarper
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PostTue Nov 08, 2022 7:22 am 
Sculpin wrote:
The only way to reduce the number of "apex" predators is to issue fewer hunting licenses. In Montana, full public access was finally established into the Big Snowy Mountains. The elk population had increased to 900% of the management goal due to lack of hunter access. There was a debate on a previous thread about whether it was wild predators or hunters that was keeping the elk population down in the Wallowas, I think the inadvertent Big Snowy experiment in Montana gives us the best answer we have.
So, what condition is that herd in? Is over population a problem? Are they fed in the winter like the Naches herds are? Are they out munching farm crops? Diseases? Or has the herd not hit that milestone yet?

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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gb
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PostTue Nov 08, 2022 7:49 am 
treeswarper wrote:
Sculpin wrote:
The only way to reduce the number of "apex" predators is to issue fewer hunting licenses. In Montana, full public access was finally established into the Big Snowy Mountains. The elk population had increased to 900% of the management goal due to lack of hunter access. There was a debate on a previous thread about whether it was wild predators or hunters that was keeping the elk population down in the Wallowas, I think the inadvertent Big Snowy experiment in Montana gives us the best answer we have.
So, what condition is that herd in? Is over population a problem? Are they fed in the winter like the Naches herds are? Are they out munching farm crops? Diseases? Or has the herd not hit that milestone yet?
Predators, besides humans, have been around a long time; in fact they obviously predate humans, particularly those of European ancestry by thousands of years. If the natural balance is allowed to find itself without too much human interference the elk herds will do fine, just as they always have. But you do have to keep the herds from interacting to much with livestock like Cows as those domestic animals are the source of much of the spread of disease in wild and natural creatures.

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Sky Hiker
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PostTue Nov 08, 2022 7:50 am 
Yea the Yellowstone herd has gone from 24K to 6K and guess what? There's no hunting there but a lot of wolves.

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PostTue Nov 08, 2022 8:14 am 
^ There was an issue in Yellowstone National Park with the resident rainbow trout population, which had been reduced almost to extinction. The introduction of the wolf in Yellowstone NP resulted in a behavioral change in the foraging habits of the resident population of elk, which gave the riparian vegetation a chance to get re-established along the banks of the Yellowstone River. The rainbow trout population subsequently recovered. In the case of Yellowstone National Park, the introduction of the wolf was a positive. The papers written by Beschta and Ripple on Yellowstone are pretty much the basis for the argument in support of re-establishing wolf populations everywhere else, but the same rules don't apply when you change the geography - not all the wildlife biologists are in lock-step agreement that the wolf will provide for some kind of panacea that will solve other problems - that's simply not the case at all. Idaho and Montana don't seem to be able to "manage" very well because they're too focused on catering to the wants of hunters and cattle ranchers.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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