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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Nov 09, 2022 12:36 pm 
ThinAir wrote:
You can milk anything with nipples.
Not a bike wheel!

Chief Joseph, RumiDude  schifferj
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Secret Agent Man
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PostWed Nov 09, 2022 1:02 pm 
ThinAir wrote:
Are they still talking about reintroducing brown bears into parts of Washington? I know they already exist along the northern border, but I feel like bringing in more and spreading them out would cause more unfortunate interactions with them, considering how many people (these days more unexperienced people) there are on our trails.
My understanding is that there hasn't been a serious push on grizzly reintroduction into the North Cascades since plans were halted in 2020, although advocates were still talking about it https://crosscut.com/2020/07/trump-rejection-grizzly-plan-wont-deter-bear-advocates Even when the plans were alive, the plan was to reintroduce like five bears per year to the entire North Cascades over a period of two to five years, and to see how they did. 10 to 25 grizzlies throughout the range would mean that encounters would still be extremely rare.

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Bootpathguy
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PostWed Nov 09, 2022 3:51 pm 
Secret Agent Man wrote:
Even when the plans were alive, the plan was to reintroduce like five bears per year to the entire North Cascades over a period of two to five years, and to see how they did. 10 to 25 grizzlies throughout the range would mean that encounters would still be extremely rare.
Do bears mate in the woods?

Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
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JPH
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PostWed Nov 09, 2022 4:10 pm 
Bootpathguy wrote:
Secret Agent Man wrote:
Even when the plans were alive, the plan was to reintroduce like five bears per year to the entire North Cascades over a period of two to five years, and to see how they did. 10 to 25 grizzlies throughout the range would mean that encounters would still be extremely rare.
Do bears mate in the woods?
They could avoid that by going with all male bears - but without any women around we all know what would happen...

Cyclopath
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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Nov 09, 2022 6:11 pm 
gb wrote:
Cats are incredibly athletic. I read one time that a Cougar could make a standing leap of 20', drop 60' from a tree without being hurt, and reach full speed in three strides. For what it is worth, even in my youth I could not do that....
Lol, I could do a 32” standing jump and jump off a 10’ high roof. Our female cat used grab hand with both paws and I though I should just relax and she would let go…no, then after a bit she began raking my arm with both back claws as well. Now I avoid her when I can.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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timberghost
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PostWed Nov 09, 2022 6:50 pm 
You probably deserved it!!! wink.gif

Chief Joseph
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Secret Agent Man
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PostThu Nov 10, 2022 12:41 pm 
Timely news story for the grizzly subject - Feds again consider reintroducing grizzlies to North Cascades
Quote:
Federal agencies are yet again considering plans to bring grizzly bears home to the deep forested valleys of the North Cascades where they once thrived. The National Park Service and U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service announced Thursday they would look at the options to bring back the big brown bears. “This is a first step toward bringing balance back to the ecosystem and restoring a piece of the Pacific Northwest’s natural and cultural heritage,” Superintendent Don Striker of North Cascades National Park said in a news release. “With the public’s help we will evaluate a list of options to determine the best path forward.” Back in 2014, federal officials announced a grizzly recovery study. In mid-2017, officials from the U.S. Department of the Interior, without clear explanation, halted progress on the recovery efforts. The process kicked back into gear in 2019, but that effort was again squelched by the Interior in 2020. Now, the North Cascades Ecosystem Grizzly Bear Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) process is back on. This time around, the process will include considering a nonessential experimental population designation under the Endangered Species Act, which would give local land managers more options for managing grizzlies. Under the proposal, the National Park Service and Fish and Wildlife would capture bears from either British Columbia or the Northern Continental Divide. About three to seven would be released in the North Cascades each year, over the course of about five to 10 years. The agencies would aim to establish an initial population of 25 bears. Within a century, the agencies would aim to have a population of about 200 bears. Grizzly bears roamed across the North Cascades for thousands of years before humans hunted them to near-extinction. The bears were a critical part of the ecosystem, eating berries and distributing the seeds in their scat, and keeping small animal populations in check. According to the National Park Service, the last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear in the U.S. portion of the North Cascades was in 1996. Biologists last estimated that fewer than 10 grizzly bears remain in the North Cascades, the most at-risk bear population in North America. Four virtual public meetings will be held to gather input on the proposal over the next two weeks. People are also invited to submit comments online.
EIS: https://parkplanning.nps.gov/projectHome.cfm?parkID=327&projectID=112008 Meetings: https://parkplanning.nps.gov/MeetingNotices.cfm?projectID=112008 Online comment: https://parkplanning.nps.gov/documentsOpenForReview.cfm?projectID=112008&parkID=327

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timberghost
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PostThu Nov 10, 2022 12:46 pm 
So typical of groups to pressure and pressure and sue the gov until they get their way.

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Ski
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PostThu Nov 10, 2022 12:52 pm 
^ Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Didn't they abandon that idea just a year or so back? Or? I guess I'm somewhat ambivalent about that one. I'd think there might be some migratory corridor for them, but considering how things have been developing, that may no longer be the case. Translocation always brings with it a whole new set of unforeseen problems. Considering the problems created with the introduction of the wolf into the state, deliberately bringing in another extirpated species might not really be the most prudent course of action, all "ecological" and "ecosystem" arguments notwithstanding. Pouring more gasoline on a fire does not extinguish the flames.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostThu Nov 10, 2022 4:15 pm 
Well, looks like the bears are doing OK. In the past, the biologists have not mentioned a number--in fact, I always got the impression that there were no grizzes around in the Nort Cascades or maybe one. Now we're up to 10. Looks like they don't need any help.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities

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BigBrunyon
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PostThu Nov 10, 2022 11:08 pm 
Several large grizz known to be up ridgelines accessed by drainages up east side north cascs.

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RumiDude
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 9:03 pm 
As far as the cougar/wolf balance goes, the difference lies in their respective power. The power of a cougar is in it's shear strength and athleticism. The power of a wolf is in the pack, their endurance, and ability to cooperatively act. The bigger the pack the more powerful they cooperatively act. Cougars ambush their prey and wolves run down their prey. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Chief Joseph
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 9:10 pm 
Sure, all mammals are different, to me it's more about territory and whether it's large enough to support say, a pack of wolves or does that pack need to branch out and then infringe upon ranch land, or are we infringing upon the wolves? The lines become blurred, imo the best thing is to leave things alone and let nature take it's course. Yes, I realize that the animals were doing just fine until so damn many humans showed up and wanted to live within the woods...guilty!

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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RumiDude
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 10:32 pm 
Chief Joseph wrote:
it's more about territory and whether it's large enough to support say, a pack of wolves or does that pack need to branch out and then infringe upon ranch land
With nomadic and semi nomadic peoples, they somehow manage to live in a somewhat balance with nature and the large predators. A great example are the Maasai in East Africa. Once humans "settle" and animal husbandry becomes industrialized, then the idea of extirpation becomes the preferred method of dealing with predators. But eliminating predators along with the loss of habitat causes all sorts of other problems. Just ask the farmers on the North Olympic Peninsula about their elk problem. Anyway, here is an article about wolves on the Olympic Peninsula and recovery of wolves state wide. Here is a wolf presentation by WDFW given in Port Angeles in Feb 2020. It's an hour and a half long with lots of good information. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."

Chief Joseph
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PostSat Nov 12, 2022 5:27 am 
Rumi Dude wrote:
"The bigger the pack..."
The size of the pack will be determined by the carrying capacity of the pack's habitat range. Once the size of the pack exceeds the habitat's range's capacity to support it, the Alpha Male will send other juvenile males packing. Unlike humans, wolves seem to understand when it's time to stop breeding.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."

RumiDude
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