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Snowshovel
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 12:46 pm 
Good job sleuthing

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Kim Brown
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 1:09 pm 
Well I got curious is all. I remember all these orgs are in a coalition on other comment letters, but couldn't recall what the response was on this; I know none have a specific wildlife mission.

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Ski
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 1:18 pm 
Thanks Kim. Reading between the lines there, it sounds like there was no objection among that group to allowing grizzly bears to wander south out of Canada on their own, right?

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Secret Agent Man
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 1:29 pm 
There is basically zero percent chance that Coast Range grizzlies will wander all the way across the Fraser River valley and the Chilliwack area to our side of the North Cascades. Lots of human infrastructure in the way.

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Snowshovel
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 1:41 pm 
That wouldnít be the route https://www.coasttocascades.org/populations

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Anne Elk
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 2:09 pm 
I object to the re-introduction because I'm concerned about the ultimate fate of those bears. I'd not like to see the same kind of situation as has developed with the wolf population. They start getting in humans' way (be it killing ranchers cattle, showing up in small towns or mauling hikers) and well gee, the wildlife management people feel duty-bound to go out and kill them. During my last two visits to Banff National Park, I was surprised at all the new rules there were for controlling hikers. Imagine my surprise when I arrived at Moraine Lake for a day hike to Larch Valley and Wenkchemna Pass to discover that the entire upper valley had been closed off because of a grizzly sighting. On another visit, solo hikers were forbidden; you had to hike in groups of 3 or more. For the same $&@^! reason. It just underscores how there are too many people per sq mile in bear territory these decades. Given the population explosion around here these last 20+ years and the increased popularity of the backcountry, it would be best to leave well enough alone. huh.gif

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Kim Brown
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 4:37 pm 
Ski wrote:
Thanks Kim. Reading between the lines there, it sounds like there was no objection among that group to allowing grizzly bears to wander south out of Canada on their own, right?
Sounds like it. That's what's been happening for quite some time; if they wander down, they do. If they don't wander down, they don't wander down. None in that group, at least as far as I know, has a mission to stop or promote any bear activity.

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Snowshovel
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 4:58 pm 
And it looks like the populations of the Stein, Garabaldi and Canadian North Cascades is very small

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Chief Joseph
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 7:01 pm 
Anne Elk wrote:
Given the population explosion around here these last 20+ years and the increased popularity of the backcountry, it would be best to leave well enough alone. huh.gif
I agree, but good luck with that. Humans seem to feel the need to meddle and change nearly everything in life, many times with less than positive outcomes....and sometimes when the damage is done, it is really done.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.

Ski
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 7:27 pm 
Okay- The loss of habitat range in British Columbia is all on the Provincial Government of the Province of British Columbia - they could have made efforts to assure there were migratory corridors but it doesn't seem that was high on the priority list. Ergo: populations of grizzly and resident caribou below the 49th parallel dwindle. Not all our fault. The question of "Do We need to try to fix it?" needs to be asked. BK

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."

Chief Joseph
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RumiDude
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PostFri Nov 11, 2022 7:45 pm 
Celticclimber wrote:
Lois Chrisler in her book ARCTIC WILD wrote: "Wilderness without wildlife, it just scenery"
As a friend once rephrased it, "wilderness without wildlife is not wild." I understand why some would be hesitant to further meddle into the environment by reintroducing a large predator from the point of view of unintended consequences. But the plan for the griz reintroduction seems measured from my amateur eyes. On the other hand, the fear of grizzly bears from a hiker's perspective is not a good reason to stop reintroduction. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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NightOwl
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PostSat Nov 12, 2022 12:42 pm 
Chief Joseph wrote:
Anne Elk wrote:
Given the population explosion around here these last 20+ years and the increased popularity of the backcountry, it would be best to leave well enough alone. huh.gif
I agree, but good luck with that. Humans seem to feel the need to meddle and change nearly everything in life, many times with less than positive outcomes....and sometimes when the damage is done, it is really done.
Uh oh, looks like we got ourselves some kind of conservative here. Don't you like Progress?

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Chief Joseph
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PostSat Nov 12, 2022 1:58 pm 
NightOwl wrote:
Chief Joseph wrote:
Anne Elk wrote:
Given the population explosion around here these last 20+ years and the increased popularity of the backcountry, it would be best to leave well enough alone. huh.gif
I agree, but good luck with that. Humans seem to feel the need to meddle and change nearly everything in life, many times with less than positive outcomes....and sometimes when the damage is done, it is really done.
Uh oh, looks like we got ourselves some kind of conservative here. Don't you like Progress?
Progress can be good or bad, but imo, people only focus on the positive aspects of progress-change and either ignore or fail to consider the negative side. Everything has a price.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.

Bramble_Scramble, Cyclopath, Anne Elk
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Schroder
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PostSat Nov 12, 2022 4:31 pm 
Now I Fly wrote:
I'm confident I crossed paths with a Grizzley near Elephant Butte
I think they've been on Stetattle Ridge for at least 10 years now

Now I Fly
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Noheaperture
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PostSat Nov 12, 2022 11:23 pm 
If they come across the border naturally, so be it. But if thereís a reintroduction, Iím all for poaching. devilsmile.gif Iíll always be in support of conservation and the balance of an ecosystem, but honestly, when someone does get mauled or they get into a ranchers cattle, itís dead anyways so why not leave the giant garbage disposals to the north where they roam in abundance and not waste tax dollars?

Anne Elk
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