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Snowshovel
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 12:57 pm 
Some claim that the logging up to the border in BC and the cross Cascades highways out of Hope are barriers

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Ski
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 1:28 pm 
^ migratory corridors. same issue that exists with the Caribou up in the Selkirks - they have become isolated - I think Anne Elk referred to it above as an "environmental island". the problem is north of the 49th parallel. there's plenty of "migratory corridor" south of it.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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timberghost
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 3:13 pm 
Let the grizzlies natural process of introduction happen. Same as it has for the wolves from Yellowstone and from Canada. The grizzlies are doing well in the GNP, Yellowstone,Bob Marshall along with other places in MT. Not that grizzlies are as nomadic as wolves. Blowing more money on studies and reintroduction is just another way to inflate the pockets of self proclaimed wilderness groups.

Ski, Anne Elk
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Chief Joseph
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 4:45 pm 
We hiked through grizzly bear basin in the bob a few years back and saw a lot of bear sign and not one person, so great habitat there for bears. The main reason that it is that way is because of a forest fire a few years ago that essentially wiped out the trail due to a myriad of deadfall. We came upon an abandoned horse camp and were going to stay there until we saw a huge and very fresh pile of bear scat. So sometimes, wild fires can be a good thing, at least for the bears and other wildlife.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Logbear
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 4:52 pm 
Quote:
Let the grizzlies natural process of introduction happen
Here is what one "self-proclaimed" wilderness group says.
Quote:
Allow Natural Recovery of Grizzlies in the North Cascades
https://wildernesswatch.org/allow-natural-recovery-of-grizzlies-in-the-north-cascades

Genesis 1:24 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
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natural_log
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 5:14 pm 
timberghost wrote:
Let the grizzlies natural process of introduction happen. Same as it has for the wolves from Yellowstone and from Canada. The grizzlies are doing well in the GNP, Yellowstone,Bob Marshall along with other places in MT. Not that grizzlies are as nomadic as wolves. Blowing more money on studies and reintroduction is just another way to inflate the pockets of self proclaimed wilderness groups.
There wouldn't be wolves in Washington from Yellowstone if they hadn't reintroduced wolves in Yellowstone. People didn't want wolves brought back to Yellowstone, for similar reasons that people don't want grizzlies in North Cascades. Looking back, was it a bad idea to reintroduce them? I go back and forth on being in favor or against.

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Snowshovel
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 5:25 pm 
The wolves in Washington aren’t from Yellowstone.

jackchinook, Ski
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BigBrunyon
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 5:33 pm 
If you're doing a MEAT MAIN for dinner in a Heavy Bear Area you gotta watch out.

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Bruce Albert
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 6:54 pm 
From the link above, and not fact checked against the DEIS: The action alternatives would involve about 50 to 400 helicopter landings and twice that many flights, though the DEIS is somewhat inconsistent on the exact numbers. All, or almost all, landings would apparently be in Wilderness, either in North Cascades National Park or in surrounding national forests. The extensive use of helicopters would continue indefinitely for monitoring bear movement and numbers. This heavy-handed management would be detrimental to Wilderness and bears alike. Bears would be collared, drugged, samples taken, released in Wilderness, re-collared and re-sampled, if determined necessary, for many years. Any young born in the Wildernesses may also be subjected to this invasive kind of management.

 Yuck. On very the outer fringe of the topic here's a goat that got drugged, tagged, collared, helicoptered, and dumped in the middle of nowhere far from home by the scientists and wildlife wizards. She seemed fairly unhappy. If I had encountered a bear who had endured the same indignities I'd probably be dead, deservedly.

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Ski
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 7:03 pm 
^ I mentioned that up-thread about all of the stuff involved dealing with wolves: monitoring, collaring, monitoring again, over and over. WDFW spends untold amounts of money on it. It's all detailed in those wolf reports they send out regularly. As to your goat: That's a wild animal that was no doubt the subject of some sort of pursuit, then drugged, captured, collared, tagged, vaccinated, transported out of its native habitat, and dumped in unknown territory. Of course it's going to act a bit out of sorts. I have no sympathy - those goats should have been shot years ago and it would have saved a ton of money and grief. Dealing with bears will be equally, if not more, intrusive, unquestionably more expensive, and doubtless more dangerous for those involved in the work. What's not to like? Go ahead.... waiting for some more of that philosophical stuff....

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Bruce Albert
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 7:55 pm 
Ski wrote:
I have no sympathy - those goats should have been shot years ago and it would have saved a ton of money and grief.
...or not 'introduced' in the first place by the wildlife managers of the day, thereby obviating any need to shoot, relocate, or otherwise muck around with them. Sympathy is another matter. I admit sympathy for creatures harmed or tormented unnecessarily by we of the supposed big brain, and I object to such conduct as morally wrong. If you can do no good, at least do no harm and all that...philosophical stuff.

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timberghost
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 9:03 pm 
I recently talked to one of the volunteers on that goat capture project. He said some of the goats were put into metal cages where some died of heat exhaustion. It was so warm that they were released around somewhere like MT si because they didn't they they could make the trip to the NCNP. Since then they have changed the style of the cages for more ventilation. Sorry back to the grizzlies.

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zimmertr
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PostFri Nov 25, 2022 9:47 pm 
NCNP in 5 years

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timberghost
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PostSat Nov 26, 2022 2:10 am 
Already that way in Wa state for black bears

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Joseph
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PostSat Nov 26, 2022 9:51 am 
texasbb wrote:
Joseph wrote:
texasbb wrote:
Joseph wrote:
I submit that anyone rational would take their chances with a human, rather than a Grizzly.
I submit that I go to the wilderness to see...wilderness. I'd much rather see bears than people. Yes, there's a risk. It's tiny.
so you'd rather come face to face with a grizzly rather than a human?
False dichotomy. Could be an angry bull moose, a rabid dog, or a 500-lb jet engine falling off an airplane. smile.gif But then, it's a rational decision not to live in fear of unlikely occurrences.
No need to be evasive. I posed the question in response to the poster (I forget the name) who said that more hikers have been killed by humans in the cascades than grizzly bears or some such. i.e. humans are more dangerous than grizzlies. The fact that no one is willing to give a straight answer is quite telling.

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