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RumiDude
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PostSat Nov 26, 2022 2:17 pm 
Joseph wrote:
No need to be evasive. I posed the question ...
It's not a matter of being evasive, it's a matter that the question is non-sensical and sidetracks the real issues of grizzly reintroduction. It's a fear mongering kinda question. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."

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PostSat Nov 26, 2022 4:00 pm 
I didn't find it evasive at all. Your question is analogous to asking somebody if they'd rather be hanged or decapitated. It's not a question you're going to get an answer to.

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Lazyhiker
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PostSat Nov 26, 2022 5:09 pm 
Joseph wrote:
No need to be evasive. I posed the question in response to the poster (I forget the name) who said that more hikers have been killed by humans in the cascades than grizzly bears or some such. i.e. humans are more dangerous than grizzlies. The fact that no one is willing to give a straight answer is quite telling.
Yeah, if I knew grizzlies were in the area, I would rather happen upon a grizzly than a human.

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Joseph
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PostSat Nov 26, 2022 6:47 pm 
RumiDude wrote:
It's not a matter of being evasive, it's a matter that the question is non-sensical and sidetracks the real issues of grizzly reintroduction. It's a fear mongering kinda question. Rumi
No its not - its a legit question in response to the person who says "humans are more dangerous than grizzlies."

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Joseph
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PostSat Nov 26, 2022 6:51 pm 
Ski wrote:
I didn't find it evasive at all. Your question is analogous to asking somebody if they'd rather be hanged or decapitated. It's not a question you're going to get an answer to.
Its a question about which would you like to take your chances with, running into a human on the trail or running into a grizzly. Maybe the grizzly would see you and run away... maybe the human is a psycho... nonetheless, its a legit question based on the behavioral history of both. Let me rest my case this way: would you rather encounter a mom hiking with her kids on the trail, or meet a mama grizzly with her cubs on the trail? (hint: the mom probably would not try to maul you, but who knows).

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Chief Joseph
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PostSat Nov 26, 2022 7:06 pm 
Lazyhiker wrote:
Yeah, if I knew grizzlies were in the area, I would rather happen upon a grizzly than a human.
While hiking out of the Bob, I encountered what looked to be a young yearling grizzly heading across the trail about 50 yards ahead of me. I saw him first and after watching him for a bit, I let out a a low pitched "Hrrrmmhh! sound and he turned tail and ran back down the gully from whence he came, in retrospect, I should have just let him go on his way without scaring him. Then I met a team of riders and pack horses, so yes, the Griz encounter was definitely more enjoyable, not that they were rude or anything, just that the griz was so much more awesome.

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Tom
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PostSat Nov 26, 2022 7:12 pm 
Well, you already have mom and cub risk with black bears so you might as well stay home if that truly concerns you. I don't really worry about black bears but I might take more precautions in camp with Griz.

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BigBrunyon
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PostSat Nov 26, 2022 10:43 pm 
You gotta FLEX on a grizz!! I've FLEXED on a grizz before!!! It cowered in fear!!! It is becoming the recommended strategy to just FLEX at one. Needs to be with high aggression and INTENSITY!!! If so, then it will cower in fear.

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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 5:07 am 

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."

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timberghost
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 7:02 am 
Well hopefully were never put in the position to have to FLEX. Weather it be because reintroduction doesn't occur or that the numbers are so few they don't become an issue. Grizzly population growth is a slow process just the same. Typically a sow with cubs try to avoid areas with boars. Now weather that means going outside NCNP remains to or not be seen.

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Joseph
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 11:40 am 
Tom wrote:
Well, you already have mom and cub risk with black bears so you might as well stay home if that truly concerns you. I don't really worry about black bears but I might take more precautions in camp with Griz.
True enough, but I think everyone would agree that grizzlies are far more aggressive overall than black bears.

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RumiDude
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 12:46 pm 
Joseph wrote:
Tom wrote:
Well, you already have mom and cub risk with black bears so you might as well stay home if that truly concerns you. I don't really worry about black bears but I might take more precautions in camp with Griz.
True enough, but I think everyone would agree that grizzlies are far more aggressive overall than black bears.
For those afraid of the griz there will still be plenty of places to hike and backpack where that will not be a concern. The central issue in the reintroduction of grizzly to the greater North Cascades is if the plan meets the criteria outlined in the Endangered Species Act. It goes without saying, that's some complicated stuff. I'm not sure how scared hikers enter into that process. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 1:22 pm 
^ They wouldn't. They would be cordoned off and out of areas where there might be bear/human conflicts, such as can be found up on the Crowell Ridge Trail over in the Selkirks. They gate off the entire area for bear habitat (or at least they did when I was last there.) I think that was mentioned up-thread in respect to closures at Yellowstone - the same things would apply.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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timberghost
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 1:48 pm 
Like they stay in those areas

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altasnob
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PostSun Nov 27, 2022 1:53 pm 
People keep fearmongering saying if grizzlies are reintroduced in the North Cascades, your favorite trail will always be closed and you will never be allowed to hike there. Ski, how long was Crowell Ridge trail closed? WTA shows plenty of reports of hikes here. I see two roads that lead near Salmo Priest Wilderness are closed every Fall for grizzlies. Big deal. Plan accordingly. Do you also get upset when parts of Smith Rocks gets closed to climbing for raptor nesting? I've done three week long backpacking trips in grizzly country (Beartooths and Canadian Rockies) and only had one trail closure due to grizzly activity (near Assiniboine). And that was one single, specific place closed, not the entire area. And the closure did not last indefinitely. The North Cascades is a large area. If a trail or two gets closed for a few weeks because of grizzly activity, so be it.

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