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altasnob
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altasnob
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PostWed Apr 12, 2023 4:08 pm 
Paradise Operations Update As of April 15, the road between Longmire and Paradise will open daily with nightly closures. The road may close early or remain closed the entire day due to weather conditions or staffing. Overnight camping will be permitted daily, a wilderness camping permit is required.

peter707
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Slugman
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PostWed Apr 12, 2023 9:37 pm 
Jet helicopters? How many jet helicopters does MRNP have, pray tell? Asking for a friend. We pay extra for snow parks, because plowing costs money. People who don’t go in winter don’t want to pay. So, how would winter users feel about an additional fee or pass needed, but then the road would be open whenever possible?

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Randito
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PostWed Apr 12, 2023 11:10 pm 
I'm in favor of a large parking structure near Cougar Rock campground and an aerial tram from there to Paradise. Let the road past the bridge be snow covered in the winter. Charge $50 to drive a car to Paradise during the summer, but make riding the tram free.

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altasnob
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PostThu Apr 13, 2023 6:39 am 
Slugman wrote:
how would winter users feel about an additional fee or pass needed, but then the road would be open whenever possible?
I think most winter users would gladly pay, say, an extra $50 a year to have the road open daily and consistently other than in extreme avy and weather days when it has to be closed for safety. There are not many easy to get to backcountry ski and snowshoe locations in Washington despite being a rugged, mountainous state. People are desperate for high alpine, snowy, terrain that you can drive to and are more than willing to pay for that. That's why this road closure is so frustrating.

vogtski
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vogtski
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PostThu Apr 13, 2023 7:39 am 
Slugman wrote:
Jet helicopters? How many jet helicopters does MRNP have, pray tell? Asking for a friend.
https://www.nps.gov/mora/learn/news/three-helicopter-rescues-in-one-day.htm

Diagonally parked in a parallel universe
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vogtski
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PostThu Apr 13, 2023 9:18 am 
Randito wrote:
I'm in favor of a large parking structure near Cougar Rock campground and an aerial tram from there to Paradise. Let the road past the bridge be snow covered in the winter. Charge $50 to drive a car to Paradise during the summer, but make riding the tram free.
Cougar Rock CG is potentially subject to large lahars; the oldest trees are only near the western edge, farthest from the river. Arriving summer visitation can exceed 500 people per hour; a base station with parking for a thousand vehicles would eliminate probably half the CR campsites. Tram construction costs would probably exceed $30M per kilometer; associated maintenance and emergency rescue costs would be very high, surely more than the reputed million dollars per winter for plowing: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/01/02/21-people-rescued-stranded-aerial-tram-car-new-mexico/9071775002/ Most of the park is dedicated Wilderness to within 100' of roads; where could the towers be located without an act of Congress? Not to mention just the viewshed degradation... Any tramway would need a large backup power source during the frequent PUD outages, probably diesel generators with large storage tanks at Cougar Rock. Heavy equipment & fuel would need to be stored at Paradise; some staff would need to live there to clear the drifted upper terminal for use. Along with a large ugly lift station, a new heated terminal building would need to be constructed, or are the backed-up pilgrims waiting to descend supposed to huddle out in the blizzard?

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Randito
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PostThu Apr 13, 2023 9:19 am 
vogtski wrote:
]
Slugman wrote:
Jet helicopters? How many jet helicopters does MRNP have, pray tell? Asking for a friend.
https://www.nps.gov/mora/learn/news/three-helicopter-rescues-in-one-day.htm
But none of those helicopters are owned by the Mt Rainier NPS. Which was the question asked. FWIW: Most helicopters are turbine powered , piston engine helicopters are limited in size and performance envelope and would be of little usefulness in a rescue on Mt Rainier.

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Slugman
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PostThu Apr 13, 2023 9:49 am 
Clearly he was trying to slander the parks management with the obvious nonsense that they are wasting money on luxuries like saving lives instead of focusing on the core mission of snowplowing on weekdays. It was just too ridiculous for me to not respond. His “answer” is equally ludicrous as you pointed out.

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hikingpersonnw
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PostThu Apr 13, 2023 9:51 am 
I remember reading a few years ago that the park was doing a study on setting up a shuttle service on the Paradise side, like Glacier NP. But I can't find anything online to back that up. Perhaps COVID put a wrench in it. Having a basic shuttle like Glacier would probably be a lot cheaper and simpler than a tram service. It makes doing one way hikes super convenient.

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vogtski
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PostThu Apr 13, 2023 10:03 am 
My original reference to (the availaibliity of) jet helicopters was as an example of the many advantages the modern Park Service has, along with millions of dollars in charitable grants and thousands of annual volunteers. Yet today's NPS managers lead the league in locked gates and administrative use only roads. The 70's rangers loved to tell the story of the first helo rescue at Paradise a decade before. An injured climber was tobagganed down from Muir and loaded aboard a piston helo at the broad saddle just below Pan Point, which they called 'Angel's landing' for the heroic pilot who stretched the ceiling of his okd Bell machine.

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Randito
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PostThu Apr 13, 2023 11:11 am 
vogtski wrote:
The 70's rangers loved to tell the story of the first helo rescue at Paradise a decade before
My climbing partner and found a hiker with a broken ankle on the Nisqually moraine returning from crevasse rescue practice in May of 1975. I ran back to Paradise to alert the rangers. It took many hours for a rescue team to assemble at Paradise, such that it was past sunset before I lead them back to where my partner and the patient were shivering uncontrollablably from early stage hypothermia. We did a z-pully system to haul the toboggan back up to the top of Glacier visita and then pulled the toboggan back down to Paradise with 8 people on ropes to keep the toboggan under control. 1st light of sunrise greeted us at the parking lot. If a similar incident under similar conditions were to occur today. I'd be able to signal the authorities with my InReach and the patient would have be helicopter evacuated before nightfall. Some things a simply much much better now than in "the good ole days". Given that adjusted for inflation the current winter budget is half of what it was in the '70s , I find it remarkable that the NPS doesn't just keep the gate at Longmire closed all winter. Honestly when they replaced the old JVC with a building engineered to support the snow load instead of requiring frequent resupply of heating oil to run the snowmelt system , I figure the NPS would stop plowing above Longmire.

runup, Slugman, zimmertr
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HappyHiker
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PostMon Apr 17, 2023 1:22 pm 
As of April 15th....Longmire to Paradise Road open daily with nightly closures, weather/staff/equipment dependent.

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bertman
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 7:25 pm 
Does anyone know if the road beyond Paradise (Stevens Canyon Rd) is open at all?

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Randito
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PostThu Apr 20, 2023 7:53 pm 
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Logbear
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PostWed Nov 15, 2023 11:48 am 
Winter access to Paradise expanded at Mount Rainier National Park https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/access-paradise-expanded-mount-rainier-national-park/4TPJJTERE5CR5LOW5IX4BY53AE/

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