Forum Index > Trail Talk > Deciduous tree question
 Reply to topic
Previous :: Next Topic
Author Message
fourteen410
Member
Member


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 2426 | TRs | Pics
fourteen410
Member
PostTue Jan 03, 2023 7:50 pm 
In traveling throughout the state, I've noticed a significant number of deciduous trees are still hanging on to their autumn leaves. I suspect the unseasonably high temps in October played a role. Anyway, that got me wondering: will these old/dead leaves impact the growth of new leaves in the spring? Or will they fall off by then? Pics from the Tieton area a couple weeks ago for example.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
GaliWalker
Have camera will use



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 4732 | TRs | Pics
Location: Pittsburgh
GaliWalker
Have camera will use
PostTue Jan 03, 2023 8:15 pm 
Here on the east coast, it’s common for some deciduous trees to hold on to a few of their leaves until spring. These fall off when new ones emerge. e.g. This was taken on Feb 19th:

'Gali'Walker => 'Mountain-pass' walker bobbi: "...don't you ever forget your camera!" Photography: flickr.com/photos/shahiddurrani

fourteen410
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Bernardo
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 2154 | TRs | Pics
Location: out and about in the world
Bernardo
Member
PostTue Jan 03, 2023 8:56 pm 
White Oaks keep their dried leaves until Spring. The first picture looks like a type of White Oak.

fourteen410
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
zephyr
aka friendly hiker



Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 3191 | TRs | Pics
Location: West Seattle
zephyr
aka friendly hiker
PostTue Jan 03, 2023 9:54 pm 
Bernardo wrote:
There first picture looks like a type of White Oak.
Yes, that's the Oregon White Oak, Quercus garryana. You can see them along I-5 in Lakewood and the Ft. Lewis area. I believe it's the only oak native to Washington state. ~z

fourteen410
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Mike Collins
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Dec 2001
Posts: 3028 | TRs | Pics
Mike Collins
Member
PostWed Jan 04, 2023 5:31 am 
It is unclear just why some trees have evolved the adaptation to retain their leaves in autumn (marcescence). One postulate is that the retention of the leaves on the tree serves to decrease the time of decomposition once the leaves are added to the ground litter. That would allow the nutrients to be available to the tree faster. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11104-017-3318-6

fourteen410, marta
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Sky Hiker
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1422 | TRs | Pics
Location: outside
Sky Hiker
Member
PostWed Jan 04, 2023 7:45 am 
I noticed the coniferous/decidious Larch tree seemed to be changing color earlier than normal this year. Probably due to the early cold snap we had.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
marta
wildflower maven



Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 1757 | TRs | Pics
marta
wildflower maven
PostWed Jan 04, 2023 7:45 am 
The wikipedia article on Marcescence has a good overview on it. I do agree that the leaves in general have been late in falling this year. We have a beech in our yard and it held on to its leaves until after the December snow in the Seattle area.

Now I Fly, rossb, fourteen410, thunderhead
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
rossb
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 1620 | TRs | Pics
rossb
Member
PostWed Jan 04, 2023 9:05 am 
Yes, big year for Marcescence. I've seen it around town, as well as in the mountains. I don't think I've ever skied over so many leaves (well into December). My guess is it had to do with the early cold snap (as Sky Hiker mentioned). The Wikipedia article mentioned that as well.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
fourteen410
Member
Member


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 2426 | TRs | Pics
fourteen410
Member
PostWed Jan 04, 2023 4:35 pm 
marta wrote:
The wikipedia article on Marcescence has a good overview on it.
Never knew there was a term for it. Thanks for sharing!

Anne Elk, rossb, Now I Fly
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
BigBrunyon
Member
Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 1285 | TRs | Pics
Location: the fitness gyms!!
BigBrunyon
Member
PostThu Jan 05, 2023 10:41 pm 
These are referred to as deciduus cause the leaves fall

geyer
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 10877 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostFri Jan 06, 2023 11:25 am 
Stay tuned. It was the maple trees here that got caught with their leaves on here. We had no fall here. We went right into winter, with a heavy snowfall and cold temps from the get go in November. Until then, we'd only had two frosts and I was wearing shorts outside daily. We had a late, wet spring too. My tree was abused in the past and is not the healthiest. A renter lived here before I bought the place, and skimped on watering. I was reading that OVER watering can cause this leaf thing to happen, but there are brown leaved maples all over town so I don't think that's the cause. The tree still has brown leaves on it. A few blow off when we get wind. We'll see if it comes back to life in a few months. I sure missed having the bright yellow leaves in the fall to look at.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
IanB
Vegetable Belayer



Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 1047 | TRs | Pics
Location: gone whuljin'
IanB
Vegetable Belayer
PostFri Jan 06, 2023 8:03 pm 
Regarding the number of trees holding leaves this fall. Trees have to prepare to lose leaves in the autumn. Besides the withdrawl of valuable compounds into the vicinity of the bud where they can be recycled the next season, the base of the leaf needs to develop a corky shear zone where it will separate from the stem. Counterintuitively, this is a growth process - a biological action that requires metabolizing sugars has to be undergone to create that shear point. In the early autumn when hot, dry conditions persisted, trees didn't have the moisture necessary to do that biological work in a complete and timely manner. By the time the rains came, temperatures were lowering, also making it difficult to perform the task. In the end many leaves died in place and remain on the their tree until finally whipped and worn by wind and freezing temperatures...

"Forget gaining a little knowledge about a lot and strive to learn a lot about a little." - Harvey Manning

rossb, fourteen410
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 10877 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostSat Jan 07, 2023 6:42 am 
IanB wrote:
In the early autumn when hot, dry conditions persisted, trees didn't have the moisture necessary to do that biological work in a complete and timely manner.
Part of that is not the case in the eastern part of the state. Our trees have to be watered in order to survive here. We did get some hot weather, but not as hot as the summer of 2021. We did have a cool spring, a deluge of rain in July, and then as I stated before, a warm "fall" then suddenly, winter happened. I actually read where this leaf thing can be caused by over watering and fertilizing, which might fit my tree's care, but there are too many maples with brown leaves still on for that to be true. My trees were abused before I moved in. They were not watered and two fruit trees were too far gone to save. Renters don't like to pay for water.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
kbatku
Questionable hiker



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3312 | TRs | Pics
Location: Yaquima
kbatku
Questionable hiker
PostSat Jan 07, 2023 1:21 pm 
With the intense heat hitting the west side of the state now I've noticed a lot of heat-stressed trees that really need to be watered (in the cities). City folk on the west side aren't familiar with watering treses but they better figure it out quickly of they will lose a bunch of old well-established trees as well as newer ones just getting growing. Someone needs to do a public information campaign to encourage residents to water their trees, including spraying the foliage as high as the water stream will reach

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Mike Collins
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Dec 2001
Posts: 3028 | TRs | Pics
Mike Collins
Member
PostSat Jan 07, 2023 1:53 pm 
The western red cedar are taking a hit also and have been called “…a canary in the coal mine.” https://www.opb.org/article/2022/09/06/western-redcedar-trees-are-struggling/

kbatku
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 Reply to topic
Forum Index > Trail Talk > Deciduous tree question
  Happy Birthday LittleHikerMom, Overlander, dawgpack!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum