Forum Index > Trail Talk > Is there a limit to how many dogs you can walk off leash in unincorporated Snohomish County?
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 9:25 am 
Randito wrote:
The second answer should be obvious, striking the dog with a club or killing it with a firearm. Dogs running amuck and jumping on people is completely unacceptable canine behavior.
r/SelfAwarewolves I used bold and strike through text to spell it out.

Mountainpines
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Randito
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 9:28 am 
Cyclopath wrote:
A dog putting their face in your crotch is not rape. I can't believe this needs to be explained.
Neither is someone slapping you with an open hand, but is is still considered assault. What level of physical canine intrusion do you conside acceptable. You seem to be asserting that a dog shoving it's nose in your crotch is OK. So where do you draw the line? Does the dog need to bite before it's unacceptable? Where exactly would you draw the line? I draw the line with a dog running up to a person, even before physical contact is made as this can cause significant distress. E.g. for the son of a friend of mine that was mauled as a 10 yo , a dog running up to him will likely cause a panic attack because of thst prior trauma, even though he is now in his 20s. Dogs are required by law to be under control.

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 9:32 am 
Randito wrote:
You seem to be asserting that a dog shoving it's nose in your crotch is OK.
You really like putting words in people's mouths, but you aren't smart enough to know what anybody thinks.

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Randito
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 9:55 am 
Cyclopath wrote:
Randito wrote:
You seem to be asserting that a dog shoving it's nose in your crotch is OK.
You really like putting words in people's mouths, but you aren't smart enough to know what anybody thinks.
So rather that clarify the precise details of what you think acceptable dog behavior is, you engage in personal insults.

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RumiDude
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 3:24 pm 
Cyclopath wrote:
RumiDude wrote:
Would that be your reaction if another person did the same thing? But somehow we are supposed to just put up with a dog
A human putting their face in your genitals against your will is sexual assault. A dog putting their face in your crotch is not rape. I can't believe this needs to be explained.
I did not write that a dog putting its snout into a person's crotch was rape, although in some circumstances it could be considered sexual assault. What I did write was that a dog owner who willfully and/or negligently allows their dog or dogs to bother another person is infact aggression by the owner towards that other person. I can't believe that needs to be explained to you. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."

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timberghost
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 6:21 pm 
He likes to twist words just to get an argument started. My advice is not to take his bait and consider the source

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Mountainpines
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 7:07 pm 
It is exaggerated. If you want trails without any dogs, choose other trails where dogs arenít allowed. Dogs have different temperaments like people. Some are poised, others are not. Maybe you should fine people who are loud or listening to the music? If you see this more than just a dogís behavior, something isnít right. And thatís not with the dog. This should be addressed with the owner when it happens. A random incident doesnít sum up all encounters with dogs on trails. If you think you can hurt a dog physically when itís not aggressive, then donít be surprised an owner will pay it back.

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Mountainpines
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 8:22 pm 
And I have a different story to tell. I was a child about nine years old. My aunt came for a visit with her German Shepherd. I loved that dog. I took her for a walk and let her loose in a fenced yard around school. It was dark, winter hours. Two young men jumped the fence. (Before that they were whispering and watching me.) I sensed wrong intentions and got scared. My loose German Shepherd sensed it too. As soon as they jumped in, they were running to escape the fence. She clenched one by the jeans. She let them go but nowhere near me. Say what you want. Dogs save lives more often than hurt delicate senses of other people.

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RumiDude
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 9:05 pm 
Mountainpines wrote:
Say what you want. Dogs save lives more often than hurt delicate senses of other people.
Circumstances dictate the amout of personal space a person is allowed. On an elevator or subway car in rush hour, people can get close and incidental touch of bodies may occur. In more open spaces like a sidewalk, in a hotel lobby, park, and such, more personal space is expected. Our laws recognize as much. Most people are willing for a dog to brush up against them as they pass on the trail. But that contact is about all a person should have to accept from a strange dog on the trail. Good dog owners either leash their dog or call the dog to their side when others approach. Bad dog owners say stuff like "don't be nervous". Say what you want, but I don't have to put up with dogs violating my personal space, whether or not it is playful or otherwise. It is the owner's responsibility to keep that from happening. And when the owner willfully or negligently doesn't keep that from happening, then it is my right to keep the dogs away from me by the means available regardless of the delicate feelings of the dog's owner. Nobody has to unwillingly put up with another person's dog violating their personal space, impeding their movement, harassing them, or in general bothering them; that include the ubiquitous playful dog jumping up on a stranger. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Mountainpines
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 9:45 pm 
Rumi, Ever thought you are in the dogís space? Maybe you should let the dog pass. So, step aside instead of creating a confrontation. Dogs are loving, seldom destructing. You donít need to be a dog lover. But hurting dogs physically when it doesnít show an aggressive behavior, should be punishable. I donít have to love dogs on trails neither. But it would not cross my mind to hurt a dog physically.

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Randito
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 10:13 pm 
Mountainpines wrote:
But hurting dogs physically when it doesnít show an aggressive behavior, should be punishable.
That's not what is being discussed. Earlier in the thread I referenced a Washington state law that empowers individuals to kill dogs for chasing ( among other things) when the owner fails to control their animal. The WTA linked discussed dogs repeatedly physically touching a person ( shoving their nose in the person's crotch ) and the owner being dismissive of the person's call to control their dogs. What sort of dog behavior qualifies as aggressive in your book? Does the dog need to bite before a person is allowed to defend themselves?

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fourteen410
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 10:22 pm 
This thread

Cyclopath, zimmertr, Nancyann
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Bruce Albert
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PostWed Mar 15, 2023 10:30 pm 
Six pages in and no-one has answered the OP's question, which was: "Is there a limit to how many dogs you can walk off leash in unincorporated Snohomish County?" Yes, twenty three. There, settled it. Prove me wrong. Oh and thanks for the WTA link. Seldom have I laughed so hard.

Mountainpines, timberghost, Nancyann
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RumiDude
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PostThu Mar 16, 2023 8:59 am 
Mountainpines wrote:
Rumi, Ever thought you are in the dogís space? Maybe you should let the dog pass. So, step aside instead of creating a confrontation. Dogs are loving, seldom destructing. You donít need to be a dog lover. But hurting dogs physically when it doesnít show an aggressive behavior, should be punishable. I donít have to love dogs on trails neither. But it would not cross my mind to hurt a dog physically.
As a matter of fact I do try to respect dog space and behavior. I understand a bit about why some dogs want to check out everything, want to guard the trail, etc. But that still doesn't mean I or anyone else has to put up with a dog's unchecked instinctual behavior. And since we seem to agree that it is the dog owners who are really responsible for the dog, we should all expect the dog owner to respect others personal space and have their dog under control, either on leash or verbal commands. I am not going to pepper spray an owner because I don't want their dog sticking their snout into my crotch or anywhere else in my personal space. At the same time I am allowed to keep a dog from doing so using appropriate proportional means at my disposal. And if the dog is persistent those means may escalate to end the encounter. As I mentioned earlier up-thread, generally I use a loud and aggressive "no" with persistent dogs. Usually that is enough to prompt the owner to recall their dog. If that hurts the dog's or owner's feelings, so be it. But on rare occasions that doesn't work and I escalate it from there, usually by asking the owner to get the dog away from me. Regardless, it is the dog owner's responsibility to keep the dog from bothering people beyond the aforementioned incidental contact and aggressive behavior. Since I live and mostly use trails on the Olympic Peninsula, I see a lot of dogs on the trails leading into ONP, where dogs are not allowed. Most encounters are without incident. But because there are so many people with dogs on the trail outside ONP, the number of encounters are increased, and thus the proportional number of negative encounters are also increasing. And those negative encounters are the ones that stick out in my memory that impact my experience and which we are talking about in this thread. I doubt that even the OP would have asked the question if all the dogs she encountered were under control and behaved. It was the fact that it was a negative experience she asked and reported it as FYI to others. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."

Randito
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Logbear
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PostThu Mar 16, 2023 11:28 am 
The correct answer is zero. Snohomish County Code 9.14.030 Dogs off premises to be on a leash. It is unlawful for the owner or custodian of any dog to cause......

Genesis 1:24 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
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