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Sculpin
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Joined: 23 Apr 2015
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Sculpin
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 Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:48 am |
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| Chief Joseph wrote: | | the option to buy from the cashier plastic bags that likely contain at least 5 times the plastic |
Totally agree. I'm guessing some pointy-headed economists explained that folks would change their behavior to avoid having to pay the 8 cents. 
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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The Ghost of Bear 380
~Sumaria~
Joined: 15 Dec 2022
Posts: 11 | TRs | Pics
Location: Upper WA |
My bae turned me on to Terracycle a few years ago. There are many free programs to join, and even some local programs where you can drop off different plastics.
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:34 pm |
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| Randito wrote: | | Putting plastic in the garbage/landfill is the most reliable way to ensure that the plastic doesn't get dumped in the ocean |
A great deal of the plastic in the ocean, the atmosphere, and in your belly comes from people washing fleece clothes and blankets.
 Anne Elk
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:37 pm |
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| Sculpin wrote: | | Totally agree. I'm guessing some pointy-headed economists explained that folks would change their behavior to avoid having to pay the 8 cents. |
Chicago’s 7-cent bag tax in 2017 reduced plastic bag usage in stores by 27.7% within one year and increased the usage of reusable bags by 15.5%.
Tatiana Homonoff, Lee-Sien Kao, Christina Seybolt, “Skipping the Bag: Assessing the Impact of Chicago’s tax on disposable bags,” UChicago Urban Labs, September 2018, https://www.ideas42.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Bag_Tax_Paper_final.pdf.
RumiDude
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:06 pm |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | Randito wrote: | | Putting plastic in the garbage/landfill is the most reliable way to ensure that the plastic doesn't get dumped in the ocean |
A great deal of the plastic in the ocean, the atmosphere, and in your belly comes from people washing fleece clothes and blankets. |
I think a fair amount of the plastic bags mistaken for jellyfish by sea turtles and other sealife where rejected recycling feed stock.
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Sculpin
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Joined: 23 Apr 2015
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Sculpin
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Sat Apr 22, 2023 9:47 am |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | Chicago’s 7-cent bag tax in 2017 reduced plastic bag usage in stores by 27.7% within one year and increased the usage of reusable bags by 15.5%. |
But that is tangential to CJ's point. Here is the actual paper that contained the information you cited:
http://www.ideas42.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Bag_Tax_Paper_final.pdf
"Over the course of the first year, Chicagoans reduced their disposable bag usage from 2.3 bags per trip to 1.8 bags per trip..."
If the bag in made from twice as much plastic, like they are here now, this reduction in the number of bags still results in a net increase in plastic usage.
I skimmed through the paper but found no evidence at all related to plastic usage by weight. Nothing! The paper was written by behavioral economists and it is about what changed consumer behavior (a tax) compared to what didn't (a ban). The question of net plastic usage is not addressed, AFAICT.
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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trestle
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
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trestle
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Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:36 pm |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | A great deal of the plastic in the ocean, the atmosphere, and in your belly comes from people washing fleece clothes and blankets. |
Not going to argue that fleece and synthetics shed micro-plastic, but this one has always felt like a straw-man put up by the single-use plastic bottle industry. Much as Americans like to measure things in random ways, like how many busses can line up from here to there, how many washings of my gear add up to an empty bottle of Coke or Evian? Maybe someone has a link to good data.
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
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gb
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gb
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Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:14 am |
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| trestle wrote: | | Cyclopath wrote: | | A great deal of the plastic in the ocean, the atmosphere, and in your belly comes from people washing fleece clothes and blankets. |
Not going to argue that fleece and synthetics shed micro-plastic, but this one has always felt like a straw-man put up by the single-use plastic bottle industry. Much as ....Maybe someone has a link to good data |
It took me five seconds to find the most recent, but a word of warning - it is science so requires reading comprehension. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0013935121015334
Cyclopath
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Chief Joseph
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
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| Sculpin wrote: | | If the bag in made from twice as much plastic, like they are here now, this reduction in the number of bags still results in a net increase in plastic usage. |
I couldn't find much info on how much thicker the newer plastic bags are versus the old, thinner ones with btw, many times cashiers double bagged your items due to the thinner ones tendency to fail under load. I estimated 5 times thicker, the info below seems to show 4 times thicker.
There is no way to know just exactly what percentage of the newer bags are not reused (maybe 25%) so if that's the case then the entire effort is a wash and possibly a loss overall, although it go go either way but probably not enough to make a difference either way, other than now most customers are now paying for them.
"What is the difference between thin and thick plastic bags?"
"A Mil is a unit of measurement used to measure the thickness of film plastics in thousandths of an inch: 1 Mil=1/1000 inch. For reference, a thin plastic shopping bag is about . 5 Mil, a bread bag is about 1.5 Mils and a thick, retail plastic shopping bag, like you'd get at clothing or shoe store, is about 2 Mils.".
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
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CC
cascade curmudgeon
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Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:14 pm |
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| Stefan wrote: | | I remember talking to a guy in Bellevue Square. He wanted to stop the overtake of palm oil tree farms in southeast Asia. I asked him this question: Do people have free will? His response: Yes. Then I asked him, if people of the world have free will to order palm oil for their peanut butter and it creates higher demand, and the people of southeast Asia have the free will to supply that palm oil, why would the people who want the palm oil, and the people who make the palm oil care what you want? Its their free will.
Why is your free will to care, higher than another person's free will to not care? |
Sorry to be the one to bust your "free will" bubble, but you have no free will. Just ask your nearest theoretical physicist.
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
Cyclopath, neek
First your legs go, then you lose your reflexes, then you lose your friends. Willy Pep
Cyclopath, neek
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Sculpin
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Joined: 23 Apr 2015
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Sculpin
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Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:19 pm |
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Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
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Ski
><((((°>
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Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:23 am |
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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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trestle
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trestle
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Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:50 pm |
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| gb wrote: | | requires reading comprehension |
Thank goodness you're here for the reminder 
I only have access to the snippets but the article doesn't distinguish between laundering synthetics and single-use plastics as the more worse source of MP, which was my point.
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
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Kascadia
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Joined: 03 Feb 2014
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Kascadia
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Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:21 am |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | Randito wrote: | | Putting plastic in the garbage/landfill is the most reliable way to ensure that the plastic doesn't get dumped in the ocean |
A great deal of the plastic in the ocean, the atmosphere, and in your belly comes from people washing fleece clothes and blankets. |
I can't speak to the contribution as a function of total microplastic pollution, but laundry detergent contains microbeads/microplastics..............
It is as though I had read a divine text, written into the world itself, not with letters but rather with essential objects, saying:
Man, stretch thy reason hither, so thou mayest comprehend these things. Johannes Kepler
It is as though I had read a divine text, written into the world itself, not with letters but rather with essential objects, saying:
Man, stretch thy reason hither, so thou mayest comprehend these things. Johannes Kepler
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Dick B
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Joined: 06 Jun 2013
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Dick B
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Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:28 pm |
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We recycle but to tell the truth, I am never sure which plastics are recyclable and which aren't. As far as bags are concerned we take our own, or carry out without a bag.
One thing I have always wondered about was what happens to old tires? I think they charge per tire to dump them at our land fill. Mostly tho when we get new tires at Les Schwab, they take care of them. Their distribution center is a huge warehouse just outside of Prineville. At one time they had a mountain of old tires stacked out in the desert. When I worked for an engineering firm we were asked to analyze a recycling idea. A plant was proposed to be set up near the Schwab warehouse. A bunch of tires were chained together and placed in a large pressure cooker type tank. Heat was applied, and the tires broke down to carbon black, steel, and diesel. Never got built. The idea reemerged with a plant proposed next to our main county landfill. Public pressure killed that idea.
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