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Kim Brown
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Kim Brown
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PostThu Apr 27, 2023 8:27 pm 
The docs discuss shuttle services from outside the park. It's in the Alternatives Discussed But Uh-uh section, or some such title. The method of reservation isn't detailed, as it has not been chosen and/or the Alternative far enough along to know; but if it's anything like backpacking reservations, most people won't have a chance at a reasonable vacation plan. A family would have to secure reservations within a minute of the launch each year in January. Then the fight is on for motel reservations. I can't imagine how frustrating that would be and how much not a vacation that is. But people do this kind of thing, I suppose, and it's the norm for some folks - they travel to places with red tape all the time. I don't see anywhere that local impromptu show-up-and-hike reservations are stashed away somewhere. Might be, but I just did a cursory glance. the Preferred Alternative doesn't look horrible, for what it is. I don't like any of it, but they do have to do something. And it probably will be a cluster. And in each alternative proposed, monitoring and reassessing is included, as it is a requirement; but good lord, what a mess. A perpetual mess.

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert

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altasnob
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PostFri Apr 28, 2023 6:21 am 
Kim Brown wrote:
The method of reservation isn't detailed
The docs do say this regarding day of reservations:
Quote:
"A percentage of reservations would be held aside for short-term purchase in addition to long-term, or advance, purchases. The time frame definitions for short-term and longterm would be identified during the design of the reservation system"
It also says start/end time may vary with use as well as day of the year start/end. If done correctly, I don't think it would be too horrible because MRNP would see that at 8 am on Tuesday in July it really is not that crowded and therefore, they would not require reservations. But the problem with this is it assumes MRNP is capable of doing it correctly. I see an overaggressive reservation system so that visits through the Paradise/Sunrise gates is significantly reduced well below capacity. This is what the park wants, no guests to have to deal with. They're just hoping the public gives them an excuse to go this route by claiming the place is too crowded.

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Malachai Constant
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PostFri Apr 28, 2023 2:24 pm 
Last year we were in a two hour line to get into Canyonlands NP Island in the Sky which had no timed entry. We spoke with others one of which had a timed entry pass to Arches who said when they showed up on time they still had to weight two hours there. Accedotal evidence sure but fact.

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Kim Brown
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Kim Brown
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PostFri Apr 28, 2023 3:04 pm 
I don't know what a short-term purchase is - I'm not hip on National Park hoopla. I agree it doesn't look horrible. But maybe it is - I don't hike MRNP often. Once every few years. Even if a good plan, it will be a clusterf* until it's dialed in. And even after it is up and running, most visitors won't do it correctly anyway; but that's not new. If a comment is submitted that suggests a change or points out an error in the plan that makes it better, that would be cool. I'm not one to do it though for those reasons stated above. I would think it would need to be consistent in order to work. From X date to X date, reservations required. If they start messing around with dates, it will be even more confusing than it already will be to would-be visitors. I wonder if places like Federation Forest or other agency lands will receive more visitors - those that are turned away at the gate will want to go somewhere with thier pic-a-nic baskets; that's an impact. Most folks don't even see Federation Forest as they drive by, so maybe not.

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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treeswarper
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PostSun Apr 30, 2023 7:41 am 
Time to think outside of the parking lot. Expand Slugman's plan. Build a rail or shuttle system that starts in the Seattle/Tacoma area, with a few stops to pick up passengers along the way. Leave your cars at home. Later on, expand it to other areas. I am disappointed that nobody seems to think beyond making it more convenient for cars. Walk your talk on being environmentally friendly. Set an example. Times are changing. Cars are taking up too much space. No more parking lots. Remember--parking lots are long term deforestation. Deforestation is bad.

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treeswarper
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PostSun Apr 30, 2023 8:22 am 
Kim Brown wrote:
I don't see anywhere that local impromptu show-up-and-hike reservations are stashed away somewhere. Might be, but I just did a cursory glance.
Impromptu is dead for popular places. Learn to plan months in advance or go to less known places. They do exist, but are not as brag worthy or blog worthy. It's what we have to deal with because of our population growth and having a park in the backyard of the major population center. Our wants don't matter much. I want to stay a couple nights in my trailer at Confluence Park, Wenatchee. I'd like to do some serious shopping. I can't do that because the sites are reserved, it seems like forever. Therefore, it's either park/camp somewhere else, day trip it, or just don't go. I've chosen the latter so far. I can't plan months in advance, that's MY problem so I just don't go. This is the future. We can't do what we want whenever we want. Spontaneity is pretty much dead.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities

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kiliki
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PostSun Apr 30, 2023 8:47 am 
treeswarper wrote:
Kim Brown wrote:
I don't see anywhere that local impromptu show-up-and-hike reservations are stashed away somewhere. Might be, but I just did a cursory glance.
Impromptu is dead for popular places. Learn to plan months in advance or go to less known places. They do exist, but are not as brag worthy or blog worthy. It's what we have to deal with because of our population growth and having a park in the backyard of the major population center. Our wants don't matter much. I want to stay a couple nights in my trailer at Confluence Park, Wenatchee. I'd like to do some serious shopping. I can't do that because the sites are reserved, it seems like forever. Therefore, it's either park/camp somewhere else, day trip it, or just don't go. I've chosen the latter so far. I can't plan months in advance, that's MY problem so I just don't go. This is the future. We can't do what we want whenever we want. Spontaneity is pretty much dead.
This nails it. Travel has boomed in recent years and the trend isn't going away. All of India and China is traveling now. People have to have everything nailed down now in a way they didn't used to. My semi-spontaneous trips to the San Juans, to the Oregon Coast, camping anywhere, are a thing of the past. Someone may argue that X destination in Y season is still possible last minute. Okay. But not places like Paradise, which are getting hammered by both cruise ship/Seattle tourism and locals--and we have a lot more locals than we used to. Everyone knows entrance lines at the Hoh have reached 2 hours, right?

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thunderhead
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PostSun Apr 30, 2023 10:32 am 
Increase prices. That will decrease the craziness and fund improved infrastructure.

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Cyclopath
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PostSun Apr 30, 2023 10:59 am 
thunderhead wrote:
Increase prices for entering the park in a private car. That will decrease the craziness and fund improved infrastructure.
It should be free on a bike, on foot, or in a shuttle bus.

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zimmertr
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PostSun Apr 30, 2023 11:12 am 
I think it should be free for everyone. Even non-citizens.

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thunderhead
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PostSun Apr 30, 2023 11:40 am 
Could make it free or cheap on off days. Use price to control crouds during the peak season, at least until the park service gets off its butt to increase parking/gate lanes.

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Stefan
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PostMon May 01, 2023 8:55 am 
The actual problem is sex. Sex breeds humans. Too many humans.

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treeswarper
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PostMon May 01, 2023 9:38 am 
Stefan wrote:
The actual problem is sex. Sex breeds humans. Too many humans.
Well, Yah, and then each American human has to have a couple of cars.... Here, there is a trend to turn your nice front yard into a brown, weedy parking lot so you can park your six cars closer to the house. The town resembles a scattered used car lot. Planners are stuck in the car age and the most dangerous intersection has been widened to make it worse for pedestrians. It's an uncomfortable/unsafe area to walk or bike in so one must have a couple of cars. Cars are not the future so planners need to update their brains.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities

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Kim Brown
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Kim Brown
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PostMon May 01, 2023 10:49 am 
I'm wondering if anyone has made a response to the NPS proposal?

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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altasnob
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PostMon May 01, 2023 11:33 am 
We have until June 11 to make a comment, so what's the rush? Also, it seems like a forgone conclusion that reserved timed entry is coming. Only the minute details are left to sort out.

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