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Dick B
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Dick B
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PostMon May 22, 2023 12:10 pm 
I believe PB stands for "Projected Blocks", and you are right, it is an unsurveyed area relative to the public land survey system. An area here in Oregon where that might apply is in the Willamette Valley. The settlers moved in prior to the public land surveys. They were deeded property thru what they called a donation land claim. These were irregular shaped parcels, and the surveys that defined them in effect became the public surveys. When the GLO came in later, the surveys stopped when the hit a DLC. I seem to remember that the quad maps showed section lines being projected into the DLCs but never surveyed. During the times I worked in the Valley I surveyed in and around a lot of DLCs and property descriptions were always referred to DLCs and not to sections or parts thereof.

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Snowshovel
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PostMon May 22, 2023 12:13 pm 
Protracted From the link “That PB stands for 'Protracted Block', which is an unsurveyed area (of uncertain acreage) of which parts of, but not the entire, boundary has been surveyed. These ‘PBs’ will be found most often in areas with complete or partial section surveys, such as in mining districts, areas with private inholdings or along Federal land boundaries. Some background: The Public Land Survey System (PLSS) is the method by which public land in the United States is identified, established, and described. The Bureau of Land Management is responsible for the PLSS. In 1993, the BLM issued a manual that allows for the definition of unsurveyed areas in the lower 48 states and provides a stabilized protracted land net which helps to simplify the issuing of leases and identifying withdrawals on unsurveyed Federal Lands. A protracted block is identified by its unique numbering system. The lowest protracted block number will be PB37 and it will be sequentially numbered, identifying each parcel that abuts a previously surveyed area. Map users should be aware of this difference in Section numbering from the standard 1-36. Until all users are aware of this change there may be confusion in communicating location based on the protraction block numbering.”

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Now I Fly
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PostFri May 26, 2023 10:07 am 
Found these miles from any trails, up in the Kitling Creek Drainage. Not in the Park. Five or six nails, and the two blue tags, all in a grouping of ten square feet. I found a similar grouping on Stetattle Ridge. Does anyone know what they're used for?
A ranger I spoke with in Marblemount didn't have much information about them. B.

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treeswarper
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PostFri May 26, 2023 11:23 am 
Were they on FS land? There are some permanent plots all over national forests. They have numbered tags and maybe still have aluminum nails put in where the diameter was measured. The tags are on the base of the tree and face towards the plot center. The plots are measured every ten years, and retagged if needed. The data is used for forest health info--how much mortality has occurred in ten years, how much growth, what other species of shrubs and grass are around, etc. That might be what it is, or might be another study of some kind. I suspect, what with the purge of the timber program, that not many people know of the existence of this ongoing project.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Dick B
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PostFri May 26, 2023 12:29 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
Were they on FS land? There are some permanent plots all over national forests. They have numbered tags and maybe still have aluminum nails put in where the diameter was measured. The tags are on the base of the tree and face towards the plot center. The plots are measured every ten years, and retagged if needed. The data is used for forest health info--how much mortality has occurred in ten years, how much growth, what other species of shrubs and grass are around, etc.
I think treeswaper is right. When I was still leading a forestry career, I worked on a couple of projects similar to this. One was for a private timber company, and the other for a county down here in Oregon. Both projects were patterned after a system developed by the Forest Service, but I think for different purposes. The private company was getting ready to sell and wanted some idea how much timber they had. The county had 30,000 acres of timberland scattered all over the county, and were trying to determine how much they had and how to manage it. That inventory recorded everything from seedlings to mature timber.

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treeswarper
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PostFri May 26, 2023 12:34 pm 
The FS recorded shrubs, grasses, and critter damage in addition to tree stuff. Tags are at the base so they will be there on the stump if the tree is cut. The nail is put in so a quality control person can check the work and make sure that the diameter measurement is at 4.5 feet on the high side of the tree--also called DBH (diameter breast height). It is a timber cruise sort of but with a lot of other stuff to record.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Now I Fly
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PostFri May 26, 2023 12:53 pm 
Yes, Forest Service land, and they were at the base of the tree. The blaze on this tree is actually want caught my eye first. Wondered if it was man made. Thanks for the info! :-)

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treeswarper
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PostFri May 26, 2023 1:24 pm 
I can't say what is currently done but at one time, a diamond shaped blaze was hacked into a tree that was easily located. Easily located being along a road or trail or easily found spot. This tree would also have a big "flasher"--an aluminum plate about 3"x3" attached with info on how to get to the plot etched on it. Etching being scratched on with one of the nails. Azimuth or bearing and distance in chains from the tree was given. GPS may have made that obsolete. If you like to hike and get paid for it, it's a good job. I think it is contracted out now so no helicopter rides for you. I also am sure some of the plots are in wilderness areas.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities

Now I Fly
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Dick B
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PostFri May 26, 2023 2:05 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
The FS recorded shrubs, grasses, and critter damage in addition to tree stuff. Tags are at the base so they will be there on the stump if the tree is cut. The nail is put in so a quality control person can check the work and make sure that the diameter measurement is at 4.5 feet on the high side of the tree--also called DBH (diameter breast height). It is a timber cruise sort of but with a lot of other stuff to record.
treeswaper. Sounds like you are a forestry type guy. I remember we did something like this back in the mid 60s for the Siuslaw NF out on the coast range. All the projects were a long time ago, so I don't remember many of the details. I think the FS stuff was more for forest ecology studies. I do remember the plot locations were all pre-determined and marked on aerial photos. We had to use the photos to find our way into the starting point. That was when I could see stereo cuz both eyes still worked. On the county job, the timber lands were scattered in various sized parcels, all in aliquot parts of sections. We had the lands flown and the photos sectionized. We pre-typed the stands from the photos and transferred onto quads. I was the field guy and I had to confirm the types on the ground. A major part of the job was to try to summarize what kind of a management plan might work best for the particular stand of timber we were in. Additional logging, pre commercial thinning, more planting, etc. The county loved our final report. We lost out butt on this job because we bid it to cheap. My partner, and eternal optimist, said "that's ok, now we know what we are doing so we will know how to bid the next one". That was a noble thought except there was no "next one". So goes the life of a forest consultant. I would be curious if the Forest Service ever followed up any of these forest studies. My feeling would be no.

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