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Gil
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Gil
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PostFri Aug 04, 2023 7:24 am 
This is really interesting. I had no idea there was this kind of conflict over these foxes. https://www.seattletimes.com/pacific-nw-magazine/on-san-juan-island-tension-over-red-foxes-and-photographers-access-to-them/

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Randito
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PostFri Aug 04, 2023 7:52 am 
People living in paradise have to find something to complain about.

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Ski
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PostFri Aug 04, 2023 8:06 am 
“zealots who want to be angry at something, so they find something to be angry about.” pretty much sums it up right there. Washington State's population has doubled since 1970. We are no longer the woodsy backwater nowhere we once were. Get used to it.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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mike
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PostFri Aug 04, 2023 3:51 pm 
A very small very vocal group are making a big stink over nothing and the Times is cashing in. Most locals don't care about the photographers. As the article noted the prairie is mostly invasive species. If the Park would have the backbone to step in and get rid of the rabbits and the foxes and the other invasive flora then the native species would have a chance. The congressional mandate is to maintain/return to the original state. In this case the 1850's at the time of the pig war. Last time the Park even suggested the idea or eradicating rabbits the Bunny Huggers came out by the dozens and shouted down the scientists who came to educate us on the facts. Cute and fuzzy trumps facts. Elexis is in a tough position. Damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes. In the meantime the prairie is rapidly deteriorating.

zhenya
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Chief Joseph
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PostFri Aug 04, 2023 4:07 pm 
It's probably ok to do so on Fox Island though right?

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Ski
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PostFri Aug 04, 2023 4:08 pm 
mike wrote:
Cute and fuzzy trumps facts.
In the current era, this has become the reality. e.g., Eastern Gray Squirrel Every one of which west of the Mississippi needs to be killed.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."

zhenya, Anne Elk, graywolf, mike
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mike
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PostFri Aug 04, 2023 4:40 pm 
Ski wrote:
e.g., Eastern Gray Squirrel Every one of which west of the Mississippi needs to be killed.
They are rapidly displacing the native squirrels in Scotland too.

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Ski
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PostFri Aug 04, 2023 6:17 pm 
^ The power pole in the alley behind me underwent some excavation work by a very determined pair of Northern Flickers. I watched as they spent days working on the pole - about 2 feet down from the big transformer can - until they had it done to their satisfaction. Their nesting cavity, so carefully created, was immediately commandeered by an Eastern Gray Squirrel, who moved out (presumably after throwing a litter.) The cavity was subsequently occupied by a family of Starlings (another species which should be eradicated from the Western Hemisphere.) The linemen who were here a couple weeks ago, hooking up the new A.D.U. behind me, took a look at for me when they were out there with the bucket truck. The guy in the bucket said the hole was big enough to put a small child's head into - not quite big enough for an average canteloupe. For years, the native Douglas Squirrel had pretty much exclusive domain of the outer end of the peninsula at Pt. Defiance Park. Currently the Eastern Grays are all the way out to the Point. Non-indigenous invasive species - flora or fauna - have been a thorn in my side for decades. I guess some people are okay with having every place on the planet having absolutely nothing unique or special about it; we are creating a hodge-podge where only the strongest and most aggressive survive.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."

zhenya, graywolf, Anne Elk
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Anne Elk
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PostFri Aug 04, 2023 6:36 pm 
It's all the lemmings that really bother me. huh.gif

"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood

trestle
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Pyrites
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PostFri Aug 04, 2023 8:22 pm 
mike wrote:
Ski wrote:
e.g., Eastern Gray Squirrel Every one of which west of the Mississippi needs to be killed.
They are rapidly displacing the native squirrels in Scotland too.
In Scotland there’s an organized effort to kill Eastern Greys. Live trap, identify, release native, kill Eastern Greys.

Keep Calm and Carry On? Heck No. Stay Excited and Get Outside!

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IanB
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IanB
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PostSat Aug 05, 2023 6:54 am 
Eastern Gray squirrels have also been introduced in Ireland and have had the same negative effect upon their native small Red squirrel. Efforts to reintroduce pine martens have apparently been benefiting the Reds because the Grays didn't co-evolve with them and don't know they are a predatory threat. Maybe our Pine martens would care to visit Puget lowlands if they knew there were big, dopey Grays waiting to become lunch? https://theconversation.com/grey-squirrels-are-oblivious-to-threat-from-pine-martens-giving-native-reds-the-advantage-131064

"Forget gaining a little knowledge about a lot and strive to learn a lot about a little." - Harvey Manning
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Gil
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PostSat Aug 05, 2023 7:25 am 
Speaking of lunch, people could always go back to eating eastern gray squirrels. My family did when I was a child on the Wisconsin farm -- I got pretty adept with a .22. Of course, that might not fly around here.

Friends help the miles go easier. Klahini

Chief Joseph
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Lazyhiker
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PostSat Aug 05, 2023 8:47 am 
We’re a non indigenous invasive species

Chief Joseph
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MtnManic
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PostSat Aug 05, 2023 10:17 am 
I've been up there maybe 3 times and the park service has instituted a (100 foot?) keep back zone from the foxes, which the photographers have been observing. I got the okay from a ranger to use my tripod if I was mobile with it (I was) as long as I retreated if a fox approached (which I did, she confirmed this verbally as she was using binoculars to observe the walkers/photographers. A few visitors were not moving back so they could get a cell photo; but generally they were keeping distance). I have heard (from a few locals) that some locals are feeding the foxes as mentioned in that article, then blaming photographers. I will probably go once every few years and observe distancing rules and behave like a behaving tourist/photographer as do most "long lens" photographers.

Backpacking: limited to one pack at a time. Cameras: limited to as many as I can carry.
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Randito
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PostSat Aug 05, 2023 10:36 am 
Gil wrote:
Speaking of lunch, people could always go back to eating eastern gray squirrels. My family did when I was a child on the Wisconsin farm -- I got pretty adept with a .22. Of course, that might not fly around here.
I don't think it would be an issue if you lived on a farm in a rural area -- but hunting anything within city limits is likely to result in a "shots fired" 911 call from the neighbors. The WDFW has this to say in the context of dealting with invasive species of squirrels:
WDFW wrote:
Shooting tree squirrels may be helpful if a small, localized population of introduced species is problematic. For safety considerations, shooting is generally limited to rural situations and is considered too hazardous in more populated areas, even if legal.
and
WDFW wrote:
The Eastern gray squirrel and Eastern fox squirrel are unclassified and may be trapped or killed year-round as long as you have a hunting license. In such cases, no special trapping permit is necessary for the use of live traps. However, a special trapping permit is required for the use of all traps other than live traps (RCW 77.15.192, 77.15.194; WAC 232-12-142).

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