Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Can we have a REALISTIC discussion about what to do with all the CARS? 08/08/23
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Ski
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PostTue Aug 08, 2023 3:37 pm 
I am taking the liberty here of un-hijacking another thread here... Can we have a civil REALISTIC discussion about what to do with all the CARS?
schroder wrote:
I was on the Baker Lake East Bank trail yesterday. The parking lots were totally full in the morning and cars were on the side of the road for a quarter mile. I can only imagine it was crowded here because people were looking for alternate hikes with the Highway 20 fire closure. Smoke was detectable but not bad. Lots of bugs.
Slim wrote:
It's sockeye season also - https://wdfw.wa.gov/newsroom/news-release/baker-lake-sockeye-fishery-opens-july-8-one-week-ahead-schedule-0
Ski wrote:
^ It's also a consequence of an ever-increasing population and the fact that outdoor recreation has become much more popular a pastime among Americans over the last few decades. Our infrastructure in our National Parks, National Forests, and other public recreational lands simply wasn't designed or engineered for the sorts of user loads we are seeing. This is our new paradigm. I have been informed by reliable sources that the WAIT TIMES for visitors who wish to drive up the Hoh Road are currently running between one and three hours. The National Park Service is going to let you and your screaming crying whining children (all of whom need to pee) sit there and bake on that two-lane asphalt road for three hours while you wait for an available parking space. (I would question the claim were it not for reading two different entries in a visitor's log telling of "we waited in line for three hours to see Hall of Mosses".) We have the same problem on the Hoh Road as we do the same problem at Paradise at MRNP as we do the same problem at Delicate Arch in Arches N.P. - too many people, too many cars, and not enough parking spaces to accommodate them. I saw the same thing over the last two weeks up at Ruby Beach - the newly-expanded parking lot simply isn't large enough to handle the capacity and the overflow was parked alongside Hwy 101. (It is worth noting at this point that on ONE pass there was overspill parked along the highway at Beach 4, which is really unusual.) Too many people. Too many cars. Time to come up with a better plan. Paving the entirety of our National Parks and turning them into parking lots is not the answer.
Dick B wrote:
A positive fact of being the age I am is that our family was able to visit many parks, trails, and campgrounds when all you had to do was go to a desired site, find a place to park or a camp site and enjoy. As our number of outings began to diminish it became obvious that was no longer the norm due to the increased crowds. It didn't help that established campgrounds were also being taken out of circulation and new ones didn't seem be being built to take up the slack. We have seen this in spades down here in Oregon. Almost all campgrounds are reserve only. Same for a lot of back country destinations. Forget trying to find a parking spot at Smith Rock SP. for a day hike. I think several things are going to happen. Large parking lots will be built outside the desired spot, and busses will carry the folks in. It is that way now in Zion. More and more back country sites will require a reservation to camp and in some cases even to hike to it. Get used to applying for a reservation early in any developed campground. Anyhow that's how I see it from here.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Lazyhiker
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PostTue Aug 08, 2023 3:58 pm 
Pay the real price for gasoline. It’s still way too cheap and people don’t think twice about driving hours for a short hike and a good Instagram shot. It would be painful for the folks with long commutes but it needs to happen. Maybe people would plan fewer hikes to distant popular spots if there was some meaningful financial impact. I have no commute, I live in Wenatchee and I work weekends. I don’t think twice about driving anywhere on the east slopes on weekdays. Gas isn’t expensive enough

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Waterman
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PostTue Aug 08, 2023 4:19 pm 
Paying the true cost for the privilege of driving. If all government subsidies for the oil and gas industry were taken away and " free hand of the market " were to be reflected in the cost of gasoline, pretty sure other transportation options would evolve quickly. The amount of parking will never be enough, same with more roads.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost

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Randito
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PostTue Aug 08, 2023 6:52 pm 
This a bit like trying to discuss solutions to Manhattan being crowded. The only thing that will reduce crowding at trailheads is some sort of economic change that causes MSFT, AMZN, GOOG and BA to have dramatically lower revenues and massive layoffs without other companies moving in and scooping up the workforce. During the mid-70s in the Cascades it wasn't so crowded. But remember that because of the "Boeing Bust" BA's employment went from 135,000 in 1969 to 35,000 in 1971. If you want less crowding, move to ID, MT or WY.

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coldrain108
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PostTue Aug 08, 2023 7:39 pm 
I was just at the Hoh last week, luckily I had a reserved campsite, so only one entry. We arrived at 5pm, only a 45 minute wait. One dinky little entry station and then hardly any parking. All for a hour walking the nature trails. As we were leaving at 9am the line was already snaked around the bend and the lot looked pretty full already. We went to Ruby Beach for the low tide, parked right at the trail, 930ish. Got back to the van at 1, people were ready to fight over our spot as we backed out...cars were parked out on 101. I joked that it would be faster to drive to the next beach to use the bathroom than to wait 45 minutes in line at Ruby...it was...I did. We were at Rainier a month ago, on a Thursday, Paradise parking lot was full by 10:30. They need double decker parking garages...that seems to be the biggest log jam. That being said, I got 2 nights at the Mora campground and 2 nights at the Hoh Rainforest Campground. I got them maybe 10 days before we left. I think the Hoh spots were had less than a week in advance. I find the reservation system to be quite useful. No more worry about the nights landing spot. I'm old, so if I can figure it out...

Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.
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coldrain108
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PostTue Aug 08, 2023 7:50 pm 
I moved back to the PNW in late 1990. My first Ferry experience was a trip to Hurricane Ridge in January. When we got close to Kingston the Ferry line was all the way to the big grocery stores (that weren't there). 3hrs later. That infrastructure has been upgraded, significantly. Park facilities? not so much.

Since I have no expectations of forgiveness, I don't do it in the first place. That loop hole needs to be closed to everyone.

trestle
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PostTue Aug 08, 2023 11:58 pm 
I took the shuttle bus to Hurricane Ridge the other day. It cost $1 each way, cash only, plus Park fee/pass. The bus went right past the line of cars waiting for the metered entry at the gate. It had a clearly marked turnaround and loading location. I sat near the intersection with Obstruction Point Road for awhile and car watched. The overwhelming majority of the vehicles were electric or hybrid of every brand. The people were all doing their best version of 2023 people, even without the lodge and despite the three Rangers (that I saw) walking around. I've spent a lot of time on the Spruce Railroad Trail this year. The lunacy between the trailhead and the DPB is only surpassed by the frenzy in the parking lot. BYOTP on Sundays, if you're expecting to use the loo. The irreverent use of space, in the lot and on the trail, is unfortunate. The morning people are typically a friendlier lot, probably because they had an easier time parking. lol.gif A lady who lives on the lake told me the water is up to 72 degrees in front of her house. There was a post on a cycling group the other day about waiting until mid-day to ride up HR or Sunrise, as they reach their daily limit of cars, and enjoying a ride with very light traffic and eventually none. Silver linings.

"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Aug 09, 2023 8:57 am 
Lazyhiker wrote:
Pay the real price for gasoline.
up.gif up.gif up.gif up.gif up.gif

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Cyclopath
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PostWed Aug 09, 2023 9:00 am 
Also bring the social cost of carbon in line with reality.
Absolutely has to be done for the continued functioning of society.

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treeswarper
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PostSat Aug 12, 2023 6:37 pm 
This drives me crazy. (pun intended) You could drive up the cost of gas, but electric cars still will take up space. It's just the low income people who will be affected, and the rest of us will be paying more for groceries and "things". Low income workers often cannot afford to live in or near the places they work. There is no uniform distribution of public transportation. Bike infrastructure is rare. How will they get to work? This country is based on the car. That is not going to change in my lifetime. We've got a major contrarian movement going on--if one group is in favor of something, even if it is good for people, the other group will protest it. We're in a gridlock. It'll take tax dollars to fix things and our Lower Our Taxes mindset isn't conducive to an operation that big. Some other countries are waaaaay ahead of us. This guy discusses the too many cars topic a heck of a lot. https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes/videos

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treeswarper
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PostSat Aug 12, 2023 6:58 pm 

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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timberghost
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PostWed Aug 16, 2023 4:19 am 
Anne Elk
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Aug 16, 2023 2:16 pm 
The good news is Washington State will ban the sale of infernal combustion engine cars in 11 years and 4 months. People will still be allowed to drive them, but gas will be $250 a gallon.

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treeswarper
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PostWed Aug 16, 2023 4:08 pm 
Fuel makes no difference when it comes to traffic congestion. An electric car takes up the same amount of space as a gas powered car. Seems like this is a hard concept to grasp. Carpooling, bussing, motorcycles, bicycles would all take up less space no matter what kind of fuel used.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Aug 16, 2023 6:42 pm 
Cyclopath wrote:
The good news is Washington State will ban the sale of infernal combustion engine cars in 11 years and 4 months. People will still be allowed to drive them, but gas will be $250 a gallon.
The mining process used to obtain the Lithium and Cobalt, the 2 primary materials used in EV batteries is far from "Environmentally Friendly"....essentially you are trading one set of problems for another. Don't get me wrong, I think that the advent of the internal combustion engine is the worst thing that ever happened to the earth. https://www.automotiveworld.com/articles/risky-business-the-hidden-costs-of-ev-battery-raw-materials/

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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