Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Can we have a REALISTIC discussion about what to do with all the CARS? 08/08/23
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timberghost
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PostThu Aug 17, 2023 5:33 am 
Here we go the combustion engine slammers come out with the hope we would go back to pre combustion times. That would solve everything. We just need better technology and the ability to use it.

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treeswarper
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PostThu Aug 17, 2023 5:40 am 
timberghost wrote:
Here we go the combustion engine slammers come out with the hope we would go back to pre combustion times. That would solve everything. We just need better technology and the ability to use it.
The engine type has NOTHING to do with what the problem mentioned in the original post is. The problem is SPACE. Traffic congestion. An electric car does not solve that problem. Not in the least. The solution is to get folks out of their cars, or at least to haul more than one or two people, and cause less cars, no matter what fuel the car uses, to take up SPACE. Here's a picture and article on this concept. Once again, fuel type makes no difference when the problem is SPACE. Maybe it is the final frontier? https://humantransit.org/2012/09/the-photo-that-explains-almost-everything.html

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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treeswarper
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PostThu Aug 17, 2023 5:43 am 
And another picture, with humor, if you still don't understand. https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2684:_Road_Space_Comparison Still don't get it? Maybe this will explain that there are different types of transportation, other than cars.
By now, if you don't understand, there is no hope for you.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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neek
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PostThu Aug 17, 2023 10:26 am 
treeswarper wrote:
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2684:_Road_Space_Comparison
It's too bad the hamster balls take up so much space. That way I could keep the rain out AND avoid having to talk to people.

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treeswarper
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PostFri Aug 18, 2023 9:34 am 
neek wrote:
It's too bad the hamster balls take up so much space. That way I could keep the rain out AND avoid having to talk to people.
Ah, you get it. up.gif

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Dick B
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PostSat Aug 19, 2023 9:51 am 
Chief Joseph wrote:
The mining process used to obtain the Lithium and Cobalt, the 2 primary materials used in EV batteries is far from "Environmentally Friendly"....essentially you are trading one set of problems for another. Don't get me wrong, I think that the advent of the internal combustion engine is the worst thing that ever happened to the earth.
If you have an issue with EVs, for or against, I suggest you read a book by Siddharth Kara, titled "Cobalt Red". If you are not into book reading, I would urge you to at least read the book reviews. The book opened my eyes. 2 things that stand out: First what toll is being taken on the people that actually mine the cobalt, and second, where does the cobalt end up before being processed into batteries we use every day.

Chief Joseph
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PostSat Aug 19, 2023 10:37 am 
Fully self-driving LiFePO4 powered taxis could reduce trailhead crowding without relying on slave mined colbalt. So do services like TrailHead Direct but taxis would provide more flexibility. Of course when you want to get picked up -- you'll need an internet connection. StarLink will need to come down from it's current pricing of $250 / month for that to have broad appeal. Or InReach and "robot ubers" would need to an agreement to enable sending a message from an InReach device to the "robot uber" service. I suppose using your InReach device to send an email to leavenworthshuttle@outlook.com might be a current way to summon a ride from a trailhead in the Icicle.

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Gil
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PostSat Aug 19, 2023 5:18 pm 
There is a pretty simple way to solve the stackups in places like the Lake Stuart Trailhead parking lot. Ban cars on that road, and install bus shuttle service. In Colorado, you can't drive your car up Maroon Creek from 8a to 5p, and outside of those times you need a parking reservation. The bus shuttle there is expensive, but there's no reason bus service couldn't be subsidized, just like the construction of that road was subsidized and the maintenance of that road is subsidized. (Cue haters of public transit.)

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letsgobobby, Cyclopath, Randito
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treeswarper
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PostSat Aug 19, 2023 8:15 pm 
I'd make it fun if I were in charge of the world. I'd put in a rail line and have an old timey train like the kind tourists like to ride going up to Paradise from Eatonville or somewhere--it could stop along the way at Elbe and Ashford. I'd continue the line around on the Stevens Canyon route. I'm a fan of rail transit. I always thought Portland had a very nice one, 'cept for the guy who must've figured us to be out of towners and we thought he was only being nice when he told us which train to get on. He wanted money for his "help" but we didn't give him any. I've been on that one when it was crammed full and when it was not. It was very efficient at moving people. If I lived there, I'd use it.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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PostSun Aug 20, 2023 6:11 am 
Gil wrote:
There is a pretty simple way to solve the stackups in places like the Lake Stuart Trailhead parking lot. Ban cars on that road, and install bus shuttle service. In Colorado, you can't drive your car up Maroon Creek from 8a to 5p, and outside of those times you need a parking reservation. The bus shuttle there is expensive, but there's no reason bus service couldn't be subsidized, just like the construction of that road was subsidized and the maintenance of that road is subsidized. (Cue haters of public transit.)
You could shuttle them from the giant parking area at the fish hatchery. If you don稚 want to pay for the shuttle, you could hoof it from the Icicle up 8mile road.

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PostTue Aug 22, 2023 2:12 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
The engine type has NOTHING to do with..."
to CLARIFY: The engine TYPE has NOTHING to do with my question in the original post. Apparently there's some confusion here. If you wish to argue ICE vs EV, please start another thread. I'm looking for possible solutions to a problem. I'm not the least bit interested in the EV vs ICE argument - I can find that crap on any site on the web.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostWed Aug 23, 2023 9:49 am 
I'm thinking we just identified THE problem. Our population thinks the problem is fuel. Once EV cars are the norm, all will be fine and dandy. Well, folks, the problem is SPACE. We don't have an infinite amount of that. We can add lanes, make bigger parking lots, but they will always fill up. We have the mindset of, "Hey look. There's that brand new lane and it isn't full of cars so I think I'll drive instead of riding the bus." And so the new lanes get filled up with....cars. Has the Puget Sound built its way out of traffic gridlock? This country needs to have a shift in the way we think about transportation. It's gonna be hard. People don't like to have to think, or change. Until we cut down on CARS, we will have gridlock. On another note: I was tempted to kick over a half dozen parked Harleys this morning. I hate those buggers. They are too damn noisy. I controlled my leg and continued walking. Rant over.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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PostWed Aug 23, 2023 12:31 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
Has the Puget Sound built its way out of traffic gridlock?
My late cousin Dale, who worked for DOT on their design teams, told us several years ago that the completion date for the I-5 upgrades between the Nisqually River and the Ardena Curve at Fife is .... never. As long as there is a DOT, they will continue to add more lanes, more HOV lanes, more bike lanes, and attempt to remove every curve from every length of road in the state. The expansion of the Ruby Beach parking lot, and the subsequent failure of the project to handle peak loads during peak season, is the reason I started this thread. We cannot build our way out of this problem - not with more roads, not with more lanes, and certainly not with more parking lots. MRNP has proposed something about "timed entry". I haven't read the details, so I'm not sure what's involved there. Shuttles are in place and apparently work quite well in several other National Parks. That may or may not be an option with all trailheads administered by all agencies.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostWed Aug 23, 2023 2:27 pm 
Maybe the NPS needs to think out of the box and shrink the parking lots.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human末animals and aliens are great possibilities
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nuclear_eggset
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PostWed Aug 23, 2023 3:51 pm 
Ski wrote:
MRNP has proposed something about "timed entry". I haven't read the details, so I'm not sure what's involved there.
I have a neighbor who does volunteer ranger work at MRNP and is in favor of the timed entry because the sheer number of humans on the trail (and alpine meadows) is as much, if not more, of a problem as the number of cars. That's it's own challenge to solve too.

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Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Can we have a REALISTIC discussion about what to do with all the CARS? 08/08/23
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