Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Can we have a REALISTIC discussion about what to do with all the CARS? 08/08/23
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huron
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PostThu Aug 24, 2023 6:46 am 
treeswarper wrote:
shrink the parking lots.
Agree. They keep putting in parking lots and prohibiting shoulder parking. Shoulder parking is perfect. Easy access for the first few users yet is infinitely expandable. When site is more crowded, it is very obviously so and people will avoid. If you really want or need to park, you can with some walking. When nobody is using the site, there is no parking lot to re-pave, patrol or maintain. Lower road speeds due to restricted width. Cars in sight may reduce vandalism & theft.

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Cyclopath
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PostThu Aug 24, 2023 10:46 am 
Fossil fuels benefited from record subsidies of $13m (£10.3m) a minute in 2022, according to the International Monetary Fund, despite being the primary cause of the climate crisis. Simple. Put that $18.7 billion a day towards something useful instead, and watch this problem solve itself. up.gif That's almost double what the world spends on education!

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Chief Joseph
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PostThu Aug 24, 2023 10:54 am 
huron wrote:
treeswarper wrote:
shrink the parking lots.
Agree. They keep putting in parking lots and prohibiting shoulder parking. Shoulder parking is perfect. Easy access for the first few users yet is infinitely expandable. When site is more crowded, it is very obviously so and people will avoid. If you really want or need to park, you can with some walking. When nobody is using the site, there is no parking lot to re-pave, patrol or maintain. Lower road speeds due to restricted width. Cars in sight may reduce vandalism & theft.
The problem with that is that then people will park unsafely with their cars partially in the road or sometimes to far to the right and they slide in the ditch. Many drivers are not very skilled.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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PostFri Aug 25, 2023 6:26 am 
Cyclopath wrote:
Fossil fuels benefited from record subsidies of $13m (£10.3m) a minute in 2022, according to the International Monetary Fund, despite being the primary cause of the climate crisis.
guess you must have missed the thread title, huh?

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."

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treeswarper
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PostFri Aug 25, 2023 7:22 am 
Chief Joseph wrote:
huron wrote:
treeswarper wrote:
shrink the parking lots.
Agree. They keep putting in parking lots and prohibiting shoulder parking. Shoulder parking is perfect. Easy access for the first few users yet is infinitely expandable. When site is more crowded, it is very obviously so and people will avoid. If you really want or need to park, you can with some walking. When nobody is using the site, there is no parking lot to re-pave, patrol or maintain. Lower road speeds due to restricted width. Cars in sight may reduce vandalism & theft.
The problem with that is that then people will park unsafely with their cars partially in the road or sometimes to far to the right and they slide in the ditch. Many drivers are not very skilled.
OK, so then outlaw parking alongside roads. Space is the problem and the reduction of the number of CARS is the solution. Folks also need to have mass transit available from their neighborhoods to get to the park. That eliminates the need to pave Ashford. How many on here have public transit available. I do if I walk a mile. They moved the bus route. I've never ridden it as I find it easier and healthier to get around on my ebike.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Malachai Constant
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PostFri Aug 25, 2023 8:56 am 
We’ll after years of static and transit taxes there is “talk” of opening a line from Eastgate to the MSFT campus (whoop Dee do) the line to Seattle is years away and I think Issaquah has been postponed to the 22nd Century huh.gif

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn

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PostFri Aug 25, 2023 7:09 pm 
treeswarper wrote:
That eliminates the need to pave Ashford.
But.... the guy who owns that huge spread just outside the Park at Ashford (same guy who owns the Chevron Station in Elbe) has been trying to turn his property into a resort, complete with kiddie-train rides and an 18-hole golf course. (I am NOT making this up.) My guess is he'd be happy to sell it to the highest bidder, but their long-term goal was to turn it into Disneyland 2.0 - I have done everything in my capacity to thwart the efforts every time that monster rears its ugly head. Not sure if he'd want to totally relinquish control (thereby depriving him of something which would generate income into perpetuity.) We've had this discussion somewhere else - some of the problems with instituting a shuttle service at the Nisqually gate at Rainier are: - currently no parking available for a fleet of "shuttle busses" - project would require dedicated 24/7 maintenance and repair facility (full time, year-round, NOT seasonal hires.) - project would require certified, licensed drivers (full time, year-round, NOT seasonal hires.) - back-up shuttles in event of breakdowns (no way you're going to leave tourists stranded somewhere along the road.) - on-site 24/7 towing capable of lugging a shuttle bus down that windy, twisty, road. (full time, year-round, NOT seasonal hires.) - certified mechanic on staff 24/7 (full time, year-round, NOT seasonal hires.) I was absolutely opposed to this idea when MRNP tried to incorporate it into their GMP in 1997, but that GMP reeked of a "good ol' boy" deal with that guy who owns that property I mentioned above. I see it now as an inevitability after seeing what's happening at Ruby Beach and seeing just exactly how crowded it was up at Paradise on my last visit one year ago. Gotta be a better way to do this. Fantasizing about removing all of the automobiles from the highways of America is pipe-dream stuff. That is NOT going to happen any time soon. Not in any of our lifetimes, at least. Amsterdam is flat as a pancake. Even an old man like me could pedal a bike there. Rainier - not so much.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."

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treeswarper
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PostSat Aug 26, 2023 6:18 am 
Ahhh, that's why we now have Ebikes. They go up steep hills. I confirm this daily. Get STATEWIDE mass transit going, subsidize the heck out of it--it's got to be comfy and affordable and reliable. Start putting places like Ashford on the route at decent intervals, for example. It can be done and apparently it is done in Europe. If we take climate change seriously, and that means doing more than posting complaints on a forum, a big public service campaign similar to the anti-smoking needs to get going. It needs to push the idea that riding a bus, walking, pedaling or car pooling is good, driving alone is bad, limit air travel, etc. If you are not going to do any of that, I think you should stop posting and complaining. It's turning into what I call the circle of bull excrement--people post how threatened the earth is, fires, flooding, etc. Then when asked what are you planning to do about it, the answer is basically nothing, as far as travel goes. You can stop using little plastic bags, but the big polluter is your car and then air travel. The big user of space is your car (keeping it on topic). I find it ironic that folks posted pictures of fires from the comfort of an airplane. Oh the horrors, but I deserve to help support an industry that adds to the cause of those horrors. Right. shakehead.gif

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities

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PostSat Aug 26, 2023 7:10 am 
^ I believe you may well have hit on something. Unfortunately, as the situation currently exists, we currently have NO viable options for utilizing any form of "mass transit" to any destination sites in Washington State other than within and immediately around the major metropolitan areas. Where would I find mass transit that would haul me, three huge ice chests full of food and 300 pounds of gear, cooking utensils, and tools (including those items requisite for a painting job) down to Exit 104, then out to Hoquiam, and up Hwy 101 to Kalaloch? My options are limited to: the truck (into which jamming that much crap would have posed some serious challenges) or the van (which gets 15 mpg on the highway.) Those vehicles jamming the parking lots at National Parks were not all driven there by climbers, backpackers, or day-hikers. A huge portion of them were driven there by Mom and Dad, with two or three kids in the back seat, and their dog. Ergo: a HUGE hurdle here is the sheer amount of STUFF that we all schlep around with on our way to the trailhead or the beach. Unless a mass-transit system is devised that will address that need, people won't use it.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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PostSun Aug 27, 2023 7:31 am 
Obviously each Park seems to have its own unique set of problems, but it certainly appears to me there's a bit of a traffic problem at Yellowstone (look at line of vehicles at left side of screen.)

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostSun Aug 27, 2023 1:24 pm 
Ski wrote:
^ I believe you may well have hit on something. Unfortunately, as the situation currently exists, we currently have NO viable options for utilizing any form of "mass transit" to any destination sites in Washington State other than within and immediately around the major metropolitan areas. Where would I find mass transit that would haul me, three huge ice chests full of food and 300 pounds of gear, cooking utensils, and tools (including those items requisite for a painting job) down to Exit 104, then out to Hoquiam, and up Hwy 101 to Kalaloch? My options are limited to: the truck (into which jamming that much crap would have posed some serious challenges) or the van (which gets 15 mpg on the highway.) Those vehicles jamming the parking lots at National Parks were not all driven there by climbers, backpackers, or day-hikers. A huge portion of them were driven there by Mom and Dad, with two or three kids in the back seat, and their dog. Ergo: a HUGE hurdle here is the sheer amount of STUFF that we all schlep around with on our way to the trailhead or the beach. Unless a mass-transit system is devised that will address that need, people won't use it.
Uh, it seems to me that a business opportunity would exist. Supplying those of you that need a lot of stuff. Rentals, etc. And buses usually have a big cargo hold. Think outside of The Car.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Cyclopath
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PostThu Aug 31, 2023 8:05 am 
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treeswarper
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PostFri Sep 01, 2023 5:28 am 
Well, best take advantage of that ebike rebate if it goes through. My travel trailer might turn into a storage area, and I might be tempted to buy a cargo ebike, if I can qualify for the money.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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thunderhead
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PostFri Sep 01, 2023 7:30 am 
Ski wrote:
but it certainly appears to me there's a bit of a traffic problem at Yellowstone
A bear jam is hardly a traffic problem. It is very routine for minor backups to occur when cool animals are near the road. Its the rare kind of traffic you hope you do see! Yellowstone is big enough and far enough away from cities and well managed enough that I have never had traffic problems there even in peak season other than road construction. Yellowstone has 5 major entrances about 50,000 parking spaces tons of surface area and more funding than most of the rest of our parks combined(for a good reason that place seriously rocks). So its traffic management success will be hard to replicate unfortunately.

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treeswarper
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PostFri Sep 01, 2023 7:52 am 
thunderhead wrote:
A bear jam is hardly a traffic problem. It is very routine for minor backups to occur when cool animals are near the road. Its the rare kind of traffic you hope you do see! Yellowstone is big enough and far enough away from cities and well managed enough that I have never had traffic problems there even in peak season other than road construction. Yellowstone has 5 major entrances about 50,000 parking spaces tons of surface area and more funding than most of the rest of our parks combined(for a good reason that place seriously rocks). So its traffic management success will be hard to replicate unfortunately.
And they fix their roads. They do need wider shoulders for.......bicycle people. up.gif

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Can we have a REALISTIC discussion about what to do with all the CARS? 08/08/23
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