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YF65CH53E
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YF65CH53E
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PostWed Mar 13, 2024 11:10 am 
It doesn't matter that copper lake is only 3000' mean sea level (MSL). It depends on the temperature at the time of attempted landings. 3000' feet altitude a pressure of 29.92 (standard day) and 80 degree day, the altitude will read 3000' but the denisty altitude is 5092'. So as a helicopter/fixed wing pilot you need to know the power required to land your aircraft/helicopter at 5,092 feet not 3,000'. So all of these Heli-excursions to these high altitudes, like you mentioned in AK, Denali, etc, the pilots have to calculate Pressure Altitude/Density altitude to ensure they have the power required to land on that location, with the weight of the tourists, fuel, etc. The colder the better, but cold = bad weather. So summer time, better weather, higher temps and higher denisty altitudes = more power required. Hence very expesnsive turbine helicopters are needed. I am not saying companies are not doing this, they are. And, for the most part they do it safely. But a lot of calculations go into mountain flying. We have not even talked about mountain wave actions of turbulence and winds swirling everywhere. Thats why I think...here we go me thinking with out staying at a holiday inn...for the most part you not see an overwhelming run on our NP with helis up at altitudes. All it takes, like Copper Lake incident is a couple of crashes and your little heli tour company is out of business. just a thought. Dan

Gunny Dan CH-53A/D/E Crewchief USMC 1987 - 2018
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thunderhead
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PostWed Mar 13, 2024 11:16 am 
The main reason we dont see helos in the woods is 1) its expensive and 2) its definitely cheating. Even most instaweenies know its cheating. By fair means or not at all... means different things to different people but it definitely excludes helicopters for most people.

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Schroder
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PostWed Mar 13, 2024 2:08 pm 
The issue with Copper Lake was the helo companies taking advantage of a sliver of Forest Service land surrounded by State Wilderness and in a protected watershed. The Forest Service has closed this loophole and has banned flights to Copper Lake. There are lots of other lakes they can go to.

YF65CH53E, RumiDude, Anne Elk
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philfort
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PostWed Mar 13, 2024 8:34 pm 
thunderhead wrote:
The main reason we dont see helos in the woods is 1) its expensive and 2) its definitely cheating. Even most instaweenies know its cheating. By fair means or not at all... means different things to different people but it definitely excludes helicopters for most people.
Way more common in British Columbia - there are plenty of folks willing to pay to get dropped off in the alpine. The reason we don't see it in Washington is because nearly all alpine terrain is protected as "wilderness". And places that aren't also aren't that hard to get to via other means.

YF65CH53E  zimmertr
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Cyclopath
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PostSat Mar 16, 2024 10:50 am 
thunderhead wrote:
The main reason we dont see helos in the woods is 1) its expensive and 2) its definitely cheating. Even most instaweenies know its cheating. By fair means or not at all... means different things to different people but it definitely excludes helicopters for most people.
Look at a map. Most of Washington is Wilderness, where it's illegal to land a helicopter except for things like rescue. We don't have a lot of heli hiking because we have regulations.

YF65CH53E
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