Forum Index > Trail Talk > Helicopter Crash - Copper Lake
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Logbear
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Logbear
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 5:07 pm 
Here is one group that's opposed to the jet noise. https://olympicparkadvocates.org/military-overflights/

“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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Chief Joseph
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Chief Joseph
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 6:30 pm 
I think we need to have a poll on who is ok with recreational helicopter 'hiking'....I am guessing on this forum, likely at least 75% against. A nay for me of course.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Tom
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Tom
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 7:22 pm 
Why do you care outside of wilderness? So far the reasons are: Because they have more money than me They are noisy and could disturb wildlife Other noise pollution outside of wilderness They could crash and pollute the environment or start a forest fire

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Chief Joseph
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Chief Joseph
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 7:35 pm 
For me, the woods and mountains ARE the wilderness, I don't need a designation. The main reason? Much like camping in a quiet place where others are loud, it is just extremely annoying. Obviously we have different views here and really they are just our own personal opinions. Agree to disagree?

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.

Anne Elk
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Tom
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Tom
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 7:58 pm 
Defacto wilderness is a slippery slope. Be careful what you wish for. All fine and dandy until others advocate for limiting your access or recreational choices because your "hike" doesn't pass their litmus test.

KurgansDad, runup, Chief Joseph
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peter707
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peter707
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 8:28 pm 
I'm sort of curious what the 'inaccessible' route is on foot. Looks like ~1000' of glacier, ~200' of 35-45 degree, then 200' of steep terrain at the top that would need to be rappelled?
Something like this?
Something like this?

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philfort
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philfort
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 10:17 pm 
I suspect the hard part might be all the boulder hopping and brush near the lake. The top is steep snow, but commonly done to access the climbing routes on the north side of Vesper.

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Anne Elk
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Anne Elk
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PostTue Nov 14, 2023 10:26 pm 
"Inaccessible" depends on your skill set and tolerance for discomfort. If you're a climber or back-country ski mountaineer, the Headlee-Vesper route is pretty direct. Member Justus S did it in winter. A couple of hardcore masochist members paddled and hiked/scrambled the Williamson Creek route. gag.gif

"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood

KurgansDad, peter707, Chief Joseph
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melc
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melc
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PostWed Nov 15, 2023 12:33 am 
Whatever about the noise... this flows into drinking water.

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Tom
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Tom
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PostWed Nov 15, 2023 1:27 am 
As noted earlier, the reservoir holds approximately 50 billion gallons of water. If you're truly concerned about it, in what scenario would a helicopter crash have any measurable impact downstream?

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Lazyhiker
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PostWed Nov 15, 2023 7:33 am 
Tom wrote:
As noted earlier, the reservoir holds approximately 50 billion gallons of water. If you're truly concerned about it, in what scenario would a helicopter crash have any measurable impact downstream?
What if I bushwhacked up to Copper Lake and took a dump in it? It probably wouldn’t have any measurable impact downstream. Would you be okay with that too?

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idoru
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idoru
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PostWed Nov 15, 2023 9:18 am 
Lazyhiker wrote:
Would you be okay with that too?
It's gross, but because "it probably wouldn't have any measurable impact downstream" I'm not going to sweat it. Same with heli leaks - gross, less than ideal for the health of the immediate surrounding area, and I'd prefer it not happen, but I'm also not gonna lose sleep over the safety of the overall water supply. I mean, it's safe to assume that animal scat makes it into the water from time to time, and we're still OK with drinking it...

philfort
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Stefan
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Stefan
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PostWed Nov 15, 2023 10:41 am 
kiliki wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Tom wrote:
How does that compare to wildlife disturbed by by fighter jets on an almost daily basis in some areas. My guess is the wildlife deals with it just fine.
True!!!! How many of you folk that be complaining about the noise issue ever go hiking during midweek in the summer around Waptus / Middle Fork / Lemah creek when those jets from Whidbey do their training in that area???? Helicopter schmelicopter--that's pansy noise compared to those jets. And those jets are doing it on a regular basis. Regular.
There are plenty of people, and at least one organized group, opposed to that jet noise--you must know that. Plenty of us go into nature to get some peace and quiet. It doesn't matter if it's someone's bluetooth speakers or people that chartered a heli to take them camping or helis on a regular sightseeing route over our NPs and NFs or fighter jets or Harleys (at one time Harley noise was the single biggest generator of complaints at MRNP)--we don't want to hear it. I'm sure there are some that give the Growlers a pass because they believe its essential for national defense or think it's cool to see, though.
People may be opposed. Its all legal. Even helicopter noise.

Art is an adventure.
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peter707
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peter707
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PostWed Nov 15, 2023 10:49 am 
Tom wrote:
As noted earlier, the reservoir holds approximately 50 billion gallons of water. If you're truly concerned about it, in what scenario would a helicopter crash have any measurable impact downstream?
It's fairly rare for a single individual to individually impact such a giant piece of infrastructure, yes. But some ethical questions are better resolved with "would it be fine if every single person did it". So if everyone else respects the ban on gas motorboats in Spada lake, it's reasonable to assume wealthy helicopter users should do the same upstream. That said, crashing a helicopter is it's own deterrent, it comes more down to "they didn't intend to crash the helicopter" rather than "it would take 10,000 helicopter crashes to fully pollute the downstream lake". I do think that there are likely orders of magnitude larger sources of industrial pollution to worry about. https://www.commerce.wa.gov/growing-the-economy/energy/fuel-mix-disclosure/ shows the state still has 9.2% coal in it's electricity as of 2021.

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Logbear
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Logbear
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PostWed Nov 15, 2023 11:03 am 
For those that are bothered by these helicopter flights..... https://wawild.org/%F0%9F%9A%A8take-action-following-helicopter-crash-in-copper-lake-fly-in-tourism-regulations-must-be-reassessed/

“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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