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Stefan
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Stefan
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PostTue Feb 20, 2024 9:36 am 
REI. Like or hate it. Remember this: REI = Recreational Equipment INCORPORATED. And yes, they do file an 1120s tax return with the IRS. I worked there. Look it up. Become educated.

Art is an adventure.
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Cyclopath
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PostTue Feb 20, 2024 10:48 am 
Weird thread.

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Stefan
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PostTue Feb 20, 2024 12:56 pm 
sarbar wrote:
And Tom, you are a WHITE MALE. Of course, every experience you have is probably good. You are the right gender and color. Women in the outdoors, no matter their color, have always been treated as second-class citizens.
That's interesting. My boss at REI was a woman. And not white. She was pretty good at what she did. Her cohort was also a woman. Also respected at REI. And this was at headquarters. My big big boss eventually was a woman at REI. Also respected. I never experienced anything in the culture at REI about treating women as second-class citizens. Ever. And being in the company of many people who are enjoying the outdoors....nobody has ever made women second-class citizens. The outdoor crowd in my opinion is pretty liberal nice going folk. Must be another self-fulfilled blanket conspiracy theory against white men.

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fourteen410
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fourteen410
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PostTue Feb 20, 2024 3:48 pm 
Stefan wrote:
And being in the company of many people who are enjoying the outdoors....nobody has ever made women second-class citizens. The outdoor crowd in my opinion is pretty liberal nice going folk.
When I took the Mountaineers climbing course 15 years ago, I was one of a few women in a large instructional group. We had to put up with relentless sexual harassment, unwanted advances from married men, and offers to land a coveted spot on a climb if we gratified them. Our group leader was constantly demeaning women - pissing on one woman's thermarest in the snow camp kitchen and accusing another of not setting an anchor fast enough because she was "too busy doing her hair and makeup". Any woman who pushed back on this treatment was labeled a drama queen or slut. We constantly had to prove that we were just as good as the men, often hauling extra gear and ropes. There was no doubt we were playing in a man's world and if we wanted to graduate, we had to play the game. Women often stay silent for this reason. Just because you haven't seen/experienced "second class" treatment doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Women have been putting up with this for years in the outdoor community, and to suggest otherwise is just ridiculous.

catsp, zimmertr
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Chief Joseph
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PostTue Feb 20, 2024 4:06 pm 
Yet one more reason why I will never join an organization, that ^^^^ kind of behavior is abhorrent!

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Tom
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PostTue Feb 20, 2024 5:28 pm 
Yep, would be naive to think REI would be all that different than anywhere else. I've never been approached to buy a membership. I suspect my experience in that regard is more location dependent than what was inferred. I did have a hard time getting service once when shopping for a pack in the Bellevue store, but usually the experience is good.

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Stefan
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Stefan
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PostTue Feb 20, 2024 6:00 pm 
fourteen410 wrote:
Just because you haven't seen/experienced "second class" treatment doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Women have been putting up with this for years in the outdoor community, and to suggest otherwise is just ridiculous.
It is not ridiculous to have an opinion based on personal experience.

Art is an adventure.
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fourteen410
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PostTue Feb 20, 2024 7:02 pm 
Stefan wrote:
It is not ridiculous to have an opinion based on personal experience
No, but dismissing reality is.

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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Feb 20, 2024 7:46 pm 
Donít want to cast aspersions as I have not been a member for thirty years or so but there were a number of socially inept males there for some time. What was described above in the climbing class is criminal behavior and would result in discharge from any business I have associate with even 15 years ago. Edit I am not talking about REI but rather a local climbing organization referenced above.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Tom
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PostTue Feb 20, 2024 9:05 pm 
If you re-read what Stefan said, he was speaking strictly to his perspective on the culture at REI having worked there, and his personal outdoor interactions, in response to an assertion that women have always been treated as second class citizens. What I took from that is that is REI is a generally progressive work environment, at least where he worked, maybe retail is different, and that he hangs out with a decent crowd in the outdoors, I suspect most of us do as well.

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fourteen410
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PostWed Feb 21, 2024 12:10 am 
I actually re-read it a few times before commenting, wondering if it was a joke or a really out of touch statement. I have no issue with Stefan's comments about his experience at REI. I take issue with his assertion that women haven't been treated as "second class" in the outdoors community and that there's some anti-male "conspiracy" at play. That's absolute nonsense. I'm glad that he hasn't witnessed it. I hope no one has to. But my point is simply that things do happen whether you witness them or not.

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Tom
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Tom
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PostWed Feb 21, 2024 5:52 am 
Well, Stefan can certainly speak for himself but what you quoted reads to me as if he's speaking to his own experiences. I can't say it's something I've witnessed in the outdoors, everyone pretty much respects everyone else, that's not to say it doesn't happen, to a greater or lesser degree. I'm not really sure how it relates to REI.

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Stefan
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Stefan
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PostWed Feb 21, 2024 9:45 am 
fourteen410 wrote:
Stefan wrote:
It is not ridiculous to have an opinion based on personal experience
No, but dismissing reality is.
Reality is relative. Your reality is different than mine. Doesn't make either wrong. Different. Some people will say I am not a liberal, that I am a conservative on a certain issue....while others will say on the same issue that I am too liberal when they conservative. It will depend on how liberal I am from one person to the next. I find all these opinions are relative to the experiences that people encounter.

Art is an adventure.

Carbonj, Chief Joseph
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostWed Feb 21, 2024 10:25 am 
Tom wrote:
everyone pretty much respects everyone else,
There was to be a SAR volunteer who used to post here until the sexism drove her away.

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fourteen410
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fourteen410
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PostWed Feb 21, 2024 10:25 am 
Stefan wrote:
Reality is relative. Your reality is different than mine. Doesn't make either wrong. Different.
I have no problem with your reality. I have a problem when you use yours to negate the experience of others.

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