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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3597 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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 Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:09 am |
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| JonnyQuest wrote: | | RumiDude wrote: | | Out in public spaces I shouldn't have to put up with your animal's idiosyncrasies, regardless of how cute you think they may be. |
Are you OK if I replace "animal" with "child" in your above statement? As a dog owner, I've tried to keep my conversation in this thread balanced and reasonable. People should have an expectation, a right, to not be harassed by others. And other's dogs. But your comment lumping idiosyncrasies into what I thought was a discussion on aggression is throwing a lot of subjectivity into the mix. |
Fine with me. Every situation is different. For instance we all understand that in a crowded elevator or bus, our personal space shrinks and we may even be jostled a bit or have to put up with being in physical contact with others. But that doesn't mean anything goes in an elevator. The same applies to interactions with dogs.
There is a sliding scale of acceptable behavior with dogs (and children). I expect a dog to bark occasionally and I accept that. I don't expect a dog to bark incessantly for fifteen minutes or more. If a dog does that the owner should not bring them out into the backcountry. Does that make sense? I accept that a dog would maybe jump up on me a little less than the dog that sniffs and licksmy hand. And I will accept the dog might continue to sniff and lick but not accept the dog that continues to jump up on me two three and more times. And yes this has happened more than once with the dog owner right there.
So I accept the occasional bark and friendly behavior, but I do not accept a dog being aggressive at all. That should never happen, whether or not the dog actually bites. And if the dog is aggressive the owner should immediately leash them and keep them leashed on any future romp into the backcountry.
If I came back from a hike and related how a camper built a huge fire then left it unattended as they went to sleep for the night, then left the next morning with the coals still smoldering, it is doubtful anyone would call me a fire hater. Nobody would say I shouldn't be concerned because after all, I was there to properly put the fire out and the forest didn't go up in flames. I understand the attraction of a nice fire and have built them myself on occasion. I just think that every backcountry user must be responsible when building a fire. Yet there seems to be the idea that CascadeClimber should just shut up about this incident because after all it didn't break the skin. And anyone suggesting otherwise is probably a dog hater.
Anyway gotta go catch a bus. I think most of this thread has been covil and I hope instructive for all participants.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12654 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:37 am |
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| Foist wrote: | | And it seems like a lot of people really overreact to dogs being friendly (barking, licking, etc.) as opposed to aggressive (growling, ears back, etc.). I've never had a dog but I can still tell the difference, but it seems like a lot of people just freak. |
This. And when a person freaks even though there's no actual threat, it can spook a dog. Anxiety begets anxiety. Those suggesting that dogs cannot sense a threatening or menacing person don't know hooey about dogs.
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Schroder
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007
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Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
Member
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Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:19 am |
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I got bit by a dog in the Pilchuck parking lot as I was taking my pack off and putting in the car after coming off the trail. I was never aware of him until he attached himself to my calf. He was a pit bull and he did break the skin. The owner called him off, jumped in a car and left.
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3597 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:22 am |
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| DIYSteve wrote: | | And when a person freaks even though there's no actual threat, it can spook a dog. Anxiety begets anxiety. Those suggesting that dogs cannot sense a threatening or menacing person don't know hooey about dogs. |
Dogs instinctively react to lots of different stimuli. That does not mean they are correct. Otherwise dogs would not attack small children and old people which are no threat at all. In other words, dogs don't perceive threatening or menacing people, they just instinctively react to their environment. Evolution has shaped these instincts to greatly favor false positives rather than false negatives. A false negative tends to remove the individual from the gene pool.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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KekistaniProphet
LOL I WIN
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 221 | TRs | Pics
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| DIYSteve wrote: | | Hiker454 wrote: | | And once again people have a right to self defense if they feel they are in danger. |
Not quite. A person has a legal right to self-defense if he or she reasonably believes they are in danger. Reasonableness is an objective standard. A subjective sense of fear is not enough. Reading through this thread confirms that some people have an unreasonable fear of dogs. |
Large dog running at me barking and teeth showing. I have a reasonable belief I am in danger. In the wilderness the dog owner will have no one to back up their claims. No evidence of malice on the defenders part unless the dog owner wire tapped them saying "I hate dogs and want to kill all the dogs I see for no reason!"
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KekistaniProphet
LOL I WIN
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 221 | TRs | Pics
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| RumiDude wrote: | | DIYSteve wrote: | | And when a person freaks even though there's no actual threat, it can spook a dog. Anxiety begets anxiety. Those suggesting that dogs cannot sense a threatening or menacing person don't know hooey about dogs. |
Dogs instinctively react to lots of different stimuli. That does not mean they are correct. Otherwise dogs would not attack small children and old people which are no threat at all. In other words, dogs don't perceive threatening or menacing people, they just instinctively react to their environment. Evolution has shaped these instincts to greatly favor false positives rather than false negatives. A false negative tends to remove the individual from the gene pool.
Rumi |
So shooting bad dogs would remove them from the gene pool right?
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KekistaniProphet
LOL I WIN
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 221 | TRs | Pics
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| Schroder wrote: | | I got bit by a dog in the Pilchuck parking lot as I was taking my pack off and putting in the car after coming off the trail. I was never aware of him until he attached himself to my calf. He was a pit bull and he did break the skin. The owner called him off, jumped in a car and left. |
What people always ignore about dog bites is that rabies is %99 fatal.
Why would I even open myself to the possibilities of dying because of rabies because some idiot dog owner thinks their dog "likes to run off leash and play in the snow".
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KekistaniProphet
LOL I WIN
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 221 | TRs | Pics
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| DIYSteve wrote: | | Foist wrote: | | And it seems like a lot of people really overreact to dogs being friendly (barking, licking, etc.) as opposed to aggressive (growling, ears back, etc.). I've never had a dog but I can still tell the difference, but it seems like a lot of people just freak. |
This. And when a person freaks even though there's no actual threat, it can spook a dog. Anxiety begets anxiety. Those suggesting that dogs cannot sense a threatening or menacing person don't know hooey about dogs. |
And when the owner is calm even where their dog is barking aggressively, lunging and showing it's teeth? What then? Is it the victims fault also?
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KekistaniProphet
LOL I WIN
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 221 | TRs | Pics
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| Teabag wrote: | | Rumidude, are you now complaining about the "annoyingly friendly" dogs. Treeswarper, there is no pleasing the city folks, lol. And it's only going to get worse. Positive only trainers in Seattle sending their clients out onto over populated trails with zero ability or knowledge to correct their dogs. And, my personal fear is what shall we do about those over-friendly ones? 😊 |
An excited "friendly" dog licking you can quickly turn to a bite if the dog gets startled
Again why don't dog owners keep their dogs on a leash so they arn't running up to people who don't want to interact with them? If I as a human run up and start interacting with someone, does that person just have to accept all my interactions?
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12654 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:45 am |
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What's with the big tough mountain climbers and big tough wilderness hikers being so fearful of pooches? The recent posts confirm that those with irrational fear of dogs are more likely to get bit by a dog. These threads are stoopid because it's folly to try to explain anything to irrationally fearful people. [/thread]
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KekistaniProphet
LOL I WIN
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 221 | TRs | Pics
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| hikersarenumber1 wrote: | | I'm pretty sure medical providers are required by law to report animal bites to animal control and animal control then investigates. It should have only taken a call to animal control to resolve the situation, per the laws cited above.
I'm pretty sure the offending dog is quarantined for a period of time, and rabies vaccines need to be verified... I researched this stuff when I was bit, but it was a while ago. |
Your ideal situation of quantifying the dog will not happen after a wilderness encounter. Most likely the biting dogs owner will slither back to their concrete jungle and hide. So the best course of action is prevention by showing the dog owners there are consequences to their idiocy.
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KekistaniProphet
LOL I WIN
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 221 | TRs | Pics
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| Bernardo wrote: | | I would get the name of the owner and then might ask about their interest/willingness to settle out of court given that Washington State is a "strict liability" dog bite state. This would at least make the point that the offense is real and potentially serious. Whether the owner pays is irrelevant to the fact that the damages are real and should be compensated. Asking would raise the owner's awareness of their potential liability. How has the enjoyment of your favorite pastime been affected? Were your pants damaged? Maybe follow up with a demand letter written by a lawyer or file a claim in small claims court. Following up and pursuing vigorously would be a public service. |
Sued for pain and suffering and all the mental trauma induced by the incident. Anxiety induced by the fear of infection/sickness from the dog bite./ Remember rabies is almost always fatal.
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KekistaniProphet
LOL I WIN
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
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How about this scenario:
Off leash dog is attacked by wild animal because the off leash dog ran up to wild animal. Is it going to be ok (in the pro-off leash dog owners view) to shoot the wild animal or should the dog owner just accept that it's just an inconvenience of being in the wilderness (to have your dog attacked by animals)?
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KekistaniProphet
LOL I WIN
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 221 | TRs | Pics
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| DIYSteve wrote: | | What's with the big tough mountain climbers and big tough wilderness hikers being so fearful of pooches? The recent posts confirm that those with irrational fear of dogs are more likely to get bit by a dog. These threads are stoopid because it's folly to try to explain anything to irrationally fearful people. [/thread] |
Personal attacks and appeals to emotion rather than discussion. And then shut down discussion. NICE! More victim blaming too. Why don't you try to insinuate threats of violence on me too like you have done in previously deleted posts.
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BigBrunyon
Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 1459 | TRs | Pics
Location: the fitness gyms!! |
Look, here's the deal: GET OUT OF THE WAY
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