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RandyHiker
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PostWed Feb 27, 2019 2:57 pm 
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joker wrote:
Do you bring this up because you think that we're supposed to "zipper merge" into  the  roundabouts? Or as a more general indicator of "driver savvy?"

I view the ability to efficiently negotiate a roundabout  to be an application of merging skills.   Which requires one to accurately judge the speed and spacing with other vehicles and adjust speed subtly.


This applies to both vehicles entering the roundabout and vehicles in the roundabout.  A vehicle that slams on the brakes in a roundabout because another vehicle is approaching disrupts the flow as much as the people that wait endlessly for the roundabout to be completely empty before entering.
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joker
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PostWed Feb 27, 2019 4:13 pm 
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OK sure. But "yielding"  is a subset of "merging"  to be fully clear. And this subset does not overlap with the subset of "zipper merging."

Schenk - I get it, but fwiw I definitely saw an improvement at Summit at Snoqualmie after their first month or two with those infernal scanning guns. Someone had actually taught them to stop scanning and focus on chair loading like they used to do just fine. I view this as a pretty clear expression of management priorities - in the case of Stevens they are prioritizing gathering a data hoard on customer behavior well over the actual quality of experience, at least in terms of lift loading.
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mb
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PostWed Feb 27, 2019 7:55 pm 
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Weird. Most Vail resorts have overhead scanners so they can get all the data they need. It may miss some small # of runs but enough for stats.
Sure Stevens may not have that yet but if they add it that problem goes away entirely.

Then again Vail certainly focuses more on revenue maximization without concern about customer experience. Several times last year they'd have ambiguous reports in some resorts like "a few key lifts are gonna run in this storm with all the fresh snow" without saying what... and it'd turn out nothing was running because of the storm, and they'd planned for that the day before...
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joker
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PostWed Feb 27, 2019 10:38 pm 
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Yeah I'm guessing that the guns are a lot cheaper than the fixed scanners, at least up front. Though they do need to pay the employees who currently seem to do nothing but aim the guns and pull the triggers. Stevens previously had fixed scanners that triggered a gate that allowed you to proceed. I presume it wouldn't work with the tech in the Epic Pass cards.
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Malachai Constant
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PostThu Feb 28, 2019 8:10 am 
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Whistler has the gates, fixed scanners, owned by Vail, and Epic passes.

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Schroder
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PostThu Feb 28, 2019 10:19 pm 
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When I asked I was told that injuries are the reason they got rid of the gates at Stevens. Too many people were skiing too fast into them and were injured when they didn't open.
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ejain
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PostFri Mar 01, 2019 1:14 am 
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Vertec wrote:
The other frustrating thing I see is when the person ahead of me refuses to enter the roundabout if they observe ANY car within the roundabout

Part of the problem is that few drivers here know that they are supposed to signal when they are about to exit the roundabout. In consequence, drivers waiting to enter the roundabout hesitate a few seconds longer before being confident that the approaching car is exiting...

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RandyHiker
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PostFri Mar 01, 2019 1:01 pm 
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ejain wrote:
Vertec wrote:
The other frustrating thing I see is when the person ahead of me refuses to enter the roundabout if they observe ANY car within the roundabout

Part of the problem is that few drivers here know that they are supposed to signal when they are about to exit the roundabout. In consequence, drivers waiting to enter the roundabout hesitate a few seconds longer before being confident that the approaching car is exiting...

Again this is just weak merging skills.  Whether a driver has their blinker on or not , a driver with strong merging skills will judge the speed and spacing of other vehicles in the roundabout and can safely enter the roundabout -- it's OK to have multiple cars in a roundabout with only a few feet between them.   A timid driver that needs the roundabout to be empty of other vehicles in order to feel safe is in the same category as a "no you go" driver at a four way stop.
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treeswarper
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PostFri Mar 01, 2019 1:57 pm 
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I enjoy the "no, you go" way of life.  It's a relief to realize that not everybody is a pushy jerk.

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RandyHiker
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PostFri Mar 01, 2019 3:29 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
I enjoy the "no, you go" way of life.  It's a relief to realize that not everybody is a pushy jerk.

Sure, but when result is a dozen cars backed up behind someone not following right of way rules -- it isn't really considerate to all concerned.

As areas develop from rural to urban population density adjustments are necessary-- for people that have lived rural their whole life this can be a pain in the ass.
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Schenk
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PostFri Mar 01, 2019 3:50 pm 
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I agree Randy,
And that practice manifests itself a  few different ways.
I have witnessed dozens of times where someone stops in the middle of an arterial street and allows someone who it just drove up to exit a parking lot to enter the road in front of them, meanwhile 20 others behind them miss the light because of the misplaced "courtesy" to one car.

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RandyHiker
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PostFri Mar 01, 2019 7:32 pm 
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Schenk wrote:
I have witnessed dozens of times where someone stops in the middle of an arterial street and allows someone who it just drove up to exit a parking lot to enter the road in front of them, meanwhile 20 others behind them miss the light because of the misplaced "courtesy" to one car

Behavior like that isn't just misdirected courtesy, it is also a road hazard.  I wonder how many rear end collisions or swerve to avoid collisions have occurred due to ignoring/being ignorant of the right of way rules.

Driving in New York is high intensity, (I just got back from a two week visit)  but in some ways less stressful than driving in Washington-- drivers are predictable and courteous.    In Washington there is more random behavior-- but not as bad as in Utah which has some amazingly clueless drivers...
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treeswarper
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PostFri Mar 01, 2019 9:41 pm 
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I have been that person stuck in a driveway and I appreciated being let onto the road.

The world has too many jerks in cars.  Shouldn't you be riding the bus or biking anyway?

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Vertec
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PostSat Mar 02, 2019 12:45 am 
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There is NO chapter in any drivers manual in existence that instructs a driver how to control other drivers - if such a chapter existed, it would be titled: "Passive Aggressive Driving Techniques", because that is exactly what it is.  Unfortunately, it seems that most people in the PNW believe they're justified in their passive aggressive actions to control other drivers.

Aggressive drivers are not the problem because they have a "get out of my way" attitude, which yes, can be harsh when other drivers overtly get in their way.  Passive aggressive drivers have the "I need to get in your way" attitude, which is a very, very pathological mindset.  Believing you know what other people should or shouldn't do, or believing you can control them is not healthy.

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Vertec
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PostSat Mar 02, 2019 12:49 am 
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ejain wrote:
Part of the problem is that few drivers here know that they are supposed to signal when they are about to exit the roundabout. In consequence, drivers waiting to enter the roundabout hesitate a few seconds longer before being confident that the approaching car is exiting...

Thank you very much for posting that reference.  I'm forwarding to everyone I know.

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