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joker
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joker
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 Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:05 pm |
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nordique
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nordique
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Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:25 pm |
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Just because the park is closed does not mean that you are unable to visit the park. You just need to find alternative access to the park! I'm very fond of St Edward State Park--now closed. But you can park at Bastyr University and easily access all the trails in St Edward Park! There are lots of alternative access points to Squak Mt trails.
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Randito
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Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:13 pm |
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FWIW: Plenty of traffic on both the Sammamish River trail and the Cross Kirkland Connector trails today. Enough in some places to require pausing and manuvering to maintain social distancing. Less than 1 in 20 people wearing any sort of mask.
ETA: The King Country parks website says that all parks and trails are closed -- but that the county doesn't have the resources to gate, rope off or enforce the closure through patrols and words to the effect of "please help by respecting closure"
My take is that it is somewhat like how the "open/close hours" work in NYC's Central Park -- If you are found "causing trouble" in the park during a closed period -- the police can cite and/or arrest you just for being there.
I think for land managers these closures serve a few purposes:
1) I think land managers genuinely want to do everything they can to reduce the spread of COVID-19
2) An extra level of indemnity from being sued by individuals that contract the COVID-19 virus during a time period that they visited managed lands and trails. As a general principle there is a basic expectation of safety when visiting an "open" facility, but not a "closed" facility.
3) An extra tool for protecting facilities from vandalism -- Rangers and Police officers need not witness actual acts of mischief or vandalism on public land in order to cite or detain troublemakers -- their mere presence while a closure order is in effect is grounds enough.
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Cyclopath
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Cyclopath
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Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:28 pm |
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Thanks for posting this, joker.
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Stephen B
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 108 | TRs | Pics
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| Randito wrote: | | FWIW: Plenty of traffic on both the Sammamish River trail and the Cross Kirkland Connector trails today. Enough in some places to require pausing and manuvering to maintain social distancing. Less than 1 in 20 people wearing any sort of mask.
ETA: The King Country parks website says that all parks and trails are closed -- but that the county doesn't have the resources to gate, rope off or enforce the closure through patrols and words to the effect of "please help by respecting closure"
My take is that it is somewhat like how the "open/close hours" work in NYC's Central Park -- If you are found "causing trouble" in the park during a closed period -- the police can cite and/or arrest you just for being there.
I think for land managers these closures serve a few purposes:
1) I think land managers genuinely want to do everything they can to reduce the spread of COVID-19
2) An extra level of indemnity from being sued by individuals that contract the COVID-19 virus during a time period that they visited managed lands and trails. As a general principle there is a basic expectation of safety when visiting an "open" facility, but not a "closed" facility.
3) An extra tool for protecting facilities from vandalism -- Rangers and Police officers need not witness actual acts of mischief or vandalism on public land in order to cite or detain troublemakers -- their mere presence while a closure order is in effect is grounds enough. |
all THs were closed so I couldn't hike. So I opted for a bike ride, leaving my front door and returning there. I did the S lake WA loop ride, and despite all rules in effect saw a ton of pedestrians on trails, in groups, not keeping 6' distance. The worst places were the trails paralleling the bike trail near Boeing in Renton and the Seward park vicinity. There were cyclists too (all around the loop) but they kept distances except when passing (sometimes me, sometimes them). I was personally exposed to dozens of people that I briefly passed (I turned my head and held my breath each time)- way more than I would have on Mailbox Peak at sunset. But hey, nobody had to call S&R for morons that don't bring headlamps, punishing the rest of us, so this is great. COVID +1; humans with dumb rules 0.
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Cyclopath
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Cyclopath
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Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:34 am |
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I love the S Lake Washington loop. For some reason I find it much nicer than the N loop.
From everything I've read, you have to be 6 feet from somebody for about 15 minutes to have a reasonable chance of being infected through the air. A single virion (particle) isn't likely to get you. Even though we have zero immunity to this particular virus, we've (meaning humans) been around viruses forever. Our airways have some defences against taking pathogens in. It's more about probabilities than black and white. I'm not saying go out and be around sick people, I'm saying don't lose sleep over having passed someone closely for a few seconds on a bike.
I would post links, but I've probably read 100 articles about C-19 in the last week, so finding any specific one is a lot of work.
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Stephen B
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | I love the S Lake Washington loop. For some reason I find it much nicer than the N loop.
From everything I've read, you have to be 6 feet from somebody for about 15 minutes to have a reasonable chance of being infected through the air. A single virion (particle) isn't likely to get you. Even though we have zero immunity to this particular virus, we've (meaning humans) been around viruses forever. Our airways have some defences against taking pathogens in. It's more about probabilities than black and white. I'm not saying go out and be around sick people, I'm saying don't lose sleep over having passed someone closely for a few seconds on a bike.
I would post links, but I've probably read 100 articles about C-19 in the last week, so finding any specific one is a lot of work. |
i'm not losing any sleep at all. I was being a bit facetious. people are taking this way too far.
S loop is my favorite too. For variety I throw in Sammamish loop (also can do that door to door) so I may hit that in a day or three
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joker
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Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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Location: state of confusion |
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joker
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Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:11 pm |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | From everything I've read, you have to be 6 feet from somebody for about 15 minutes to have a reasonable chance of being infected through the air. |
One caveat with respect to bike trails I'd mention is that it's not so hard to take a direct hit from spit or boogers ("farmer's blow," anyone?) while well over six feet behind a bike rider on one of these trails or along the road. This is based on personal experience. And one direct hit may suffice to infect one - this virus seems particularly virulent. It's just not super well established what exactly will suffice to get one sick yet. The folks up in a choir I think in Mount Vernon may well have gotten sick from fine aerosol generally thought to typically occur only from medical procedures such as intubation. The health folks researching this case are having a hard time coming up with an alternative explanation besides that one or more of the choir singers produced fine aerosol that hung in the room for some time and reached people at quite a distance. There may in fact be another cause but I think there's a lot more unknown than known right now. I went by the Sammamish River Trail yesterday and was glad to stay off it when I saw how many people were biking, running, and walking along it. I've almost never seen this particular stretch so busy, even on a sunny summer weekend afternoon.
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neek
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Joined: 12 Sep 2011
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Location: Seattle, WA |
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neek
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Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:35 pm |
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| joker wrote: | | I went by the Sammamish River Trail yesterday and was glad to stay off it when I saw how many people were biking, running, and walking along it. I've almost never seen this particular stretch so busy, even on a sunny summer weekend afternoon. |
Yes this has been my repeated experience over the past few weeks. The first time I was briefly caught in the middle of it, but have since stuck to adjacent roads, even formerly busy ones. And now I have visions of those snot rockets being rehydrated by the rain and splashing up as you ride through a puddle...not sure if that's how it works, but still, eww.
Yesterday, cars were lined up along the shoulder (muddy drainage ditch, really) outside the locked gate of Paradise Valley, including a guy in a low-rider trying to get un-stuck. In different times I may have pulled my bike over and helped out, but sorry buddy, you're on your own these days.
Still not sure how responsible it is to be tooling around on a bike, even if you're paranoid about social distancing. But I suppose I'll keep doing it until someone convinces me otherwise, or they implement an actual lockdown.
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Roly Poly
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Neek, I agree that the snot rockets are a very real hazard. Unfortunately one of my dogs walked straight through one that was on the ground before I could stop it. The bike trails do seem hazardous and filled with boomer removers. So I’m finding creative new ways. Can’t wait to sell my house and get out of here before the second wave comes this fall.
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iron
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Joined: 10 Aug 2008
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iron
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Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:53 pm |
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"hey, let's post our favorite places online so everyone can consolidate there!"
great idea.
i think many people could benefit from listening to the governor's speech taking place right now.
for those of us that are complying with the intent of the stay-in requirements, it appears there are many more that just say "eh, it doesn't impact me so i'm going out anyway".
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:55 pm |
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| joker wrote: | | One caveat with respect to bike trails I'd mention is that it's not so hard to take a direct hit from spit or boogers ("farmer's blow," anyone?) while well over six feet behind a bike rider on one of these trails or along the road. This is based on personal experience. |
I pretty much only ride solo, and I'm not riding lately because of an injury. I read someone talking about their experience in a paceline, getting hit with a drop of sweat from the guy ahead. I don't know if sweat is infectious, but I wouldn't risk it personally. I think if you're going to ride, you should (1) ride solo, and (2) ride roads not MUPs. Choose roads that don't see much traffic. Most cyclists probably have a good idea which ones those are, but if not, Strava's global heatmap is a good resource for planning.
| joker wrote: | | And one direct hit may suffice to infect one - this virus seems particularly virulent. |
All bat viruses seem especially virulent. 😕
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Stephen B
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 108 | TRs | Pics
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| joker wrote: | | Cyclopath wrote: | | From everything I've read, you have to be 6 feet from somebody for about 15 minutes to have a reasonable chance of being infected through the air. |
One caveat with respect to bike trails I'd mention is that it's not so hard to take a direct hit from spit or boogers ("farmer's blow," anyone?) while well over six feet behind a bike rider on one of these trails or along the road. This is based on personal experience. And one direct hit may suffice to infect one - this virus seems particularly virulent. It's just not super well established what exactly will suffice to get one sick yet. The folks up in a choir I think in Mount Vernon may well have gotten sick from fine aerosol generally thought to typically occur only from medical procedures such as intubation. The health folks researching this case are having a hard time coming up with an alternative explanation besides that one or more of the choir singers produced fine aerosol that hung in the room for some time and reached people at quite a distance. There may in fact be another cause but I think there's a lot more unknown than known right now. I went by the Sammamish River Trail yesterday and was glad to stay off it when I saw how many people were biking, running, and walking along it. I've almost never seen this particular stretch so busy, even on a sunny summer weekend afternoon. |
Oh noooos, snot rockets?!?! I’m so afraid! I need to hide in a fortress of toilet paper in a fetal position, trembling in fear!
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joker
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Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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joker
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Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:09 pm |
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Not what I'm even close to suggesting but sure go ride ten feet behind folks on a bike trail if you want. I have better things to do right now but I'm not the boss of you now. Interesting presentation of self there though.
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Stephen B
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| joker wrote: | | Not what I'm even close to suggesting but sure go ride ten feet behind folks on a bike trail if you want. I have better things to do right now but I'm not the boss of you now. Interesting presentation of self there though. |
I don't ride ten feet behind folks, not even close. Most of the time I'm on my own with me periodically passing others or vice versa.
FWIW Your post was just as interesting reveal of you from my perspective. I've never seen so much handwringing and worse-case scenario postulations. Actually I have - pretty much every day concerning COVID.
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