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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 2440 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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 Thu Apr 25, 2024 7:52 pm |
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| Logbear wrote: | | some of us live in areas that is not experiencing unusually dry conditions.
Oct 2022-Mar 2023 I had 32.67 inches of rain
Oct 2023-Mar 2024 I had 33.83 inches of rain |
I see you're in "Getchell" - that's up the Stillaguamish River valley, yes? One of the wettest micro-climates in western Washington (except for the peninsula), according to a friend who lives closer to Verlot and kept rain records for years. Do you happen to have your statistics from Oct '23 thru Feb '24? Just curious.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Logbear
Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 535 | TRs | Pics
Location: Getchell. Wash |
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Logbear
Member
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Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:12 pm |
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| Anne Elk wrote: | | You'd be surprised how much runoff you can get from even a small area - I'm amazed at what comes off my patio roof alone. |
I live in an area that gets over 48" of rain a year so I'm usually figuring out how much water I have to get rid of.
Here's a neat rule of thumb...
An 8' long roof section, 1' wide, makes 5 gallons of water from 1 inch of rainfall.
My woodshed is 8' long, 18 feet wide. Today it rained .61". So each 1 foot section made 3 gallons. 3X18 = 54 gallons. I have 6- 32 gallon trash cans lined up behind the woodshed to catch the runoff. The cans are positioned so the 20" diameter is catching all the drips. A 20 inch wide section of roof with .61" of rain is 5 gallons. And sure enough my trash cans have about 5 gallons in them. Another 4 or 5 inches of rain and I'll have 192 gallons of water storage.
I don't save water because of any concern about drought. My concern if that during a hot, dry, windy, summer day a tree will fall and break a power wire and start a fire. Of course then the power would go out and my well would quit working.
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
 Anne Elk, flatsqwerl, ChinookPass
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
Anne Elk, flatsqwerl, ChinookPass
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Joseph
Joseph
Joined: 13 Jun 2018
Posts: 266 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Joseph
Joseph
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Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:45 pm |
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| huron wrote: | | Joseph wrote: | | challenges the dominant narrative |
Mass will admit that the climate is warming due to human causes. He does this only after ranting about how some part of a recent headline, report or statement by a politician or organization he dislikes can be shown to be not technically correct.
It's as if he is a passenger with you on a flight out of Seatac and the captain comes on the PA: "click... sorry folks, but we have lost flight control and are about to hit the side of that mountain in front of you." Then Mass stands up from his seat and shouts "no, that's not a mountain, that's a volcano and you are not a geologist so you shouldn't be making such a comment". CRASH.
As a supposed climatologist, shouldn't his main focus be working on and talking about the actual climate change issues that he admits exists? No, he rants on about every little distracting nitpick. And when he nitpicks, it's often cherry-picking and misrepresentation of data like pointed out above. His brain can't handle the cognitive dissonance resulting from the trajectory of his life-long field of work and his long held biases.
The warming climate narrative is dominant because it is obvious. Needs no challenge. |
just more ad hominem attacks, and no substantive refutation of what he wrote about the so-called drought.
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Joseph
Joseph
Joined: 13 Jun 2018
Posts: 266 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Joseph
Joseph
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Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:47 pm |
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| altasnob wrote: | | I'm not saying anything other than neither you, nor I, nor Cliff Mass, or even BigBrunyonAI, can accurately forecast the weather more than about a week out. I am just wondering if we do return to normal precipitation for the water year, does Department of Ecology decide to stop dolling out that $4.5 million? I don't know the answer to this, but I assume once they announce the money is available, it is available regardless of what the future weather brings us. |
bingo. Follow the $$$. Its a complete scam. We're in Washington remember.
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Logbear
Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 535 | TRs | Pics
Location: Getchell. Wash |
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Logbear
Member
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Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:58 pm |
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| Anne Elk wrote: | | Logbear wrote: | | some of us live in areas that is not experiencing unusually dry conditions.
Oct 2022-Mar 2023 I had 32.67 inches of rain
Oct 2023-Mar 2024 I had 33.83 inches of rain |
I see you're in "Getchell" - that's up the Stillaguamish River valley, yes? One of the wettest micro-climates in western Washington (except for the peninsula), according to a friend who lives closer to Verlot and kept rain records for years. Do you happen to have your statistics from Oct '23 thru Feb '24? Just curious. |
I'm actually on what is called the Getchell Plateau. We are on our own aquifer. I'm just north of the Lake Cassidy/Lake Martha Wetlands Park. This is also a very wet micro-climate. Whiskey Ridge in Marysville is just west of us. The rain clouds come up from Everett over the ridge and then drop and then rain, rain, rain.
I have rain records going back to Oct 2016.
The records for Oct 23 thru Feb 24 are available online on wunderground.. The history lets you choose daily, weekly, and monthly.
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KWALAKES84
As far as Verlot goes..2.96 inches today. Wow
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KWAGRANI60
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
“There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.” – Sir Ranulph Fiennes
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Tom
Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 17857 | TRs | Pics
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Tom
Admin
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Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:19 pm |
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| Joseph wrote: | | bingo. Follow the $$$. Its a complete scam. We're in Washington remember. |
Maybe I'm missing something but if it were a scam, presumably some sort of money grab by the dems or libs, wouldn't the declaration have been reversed so that only the wetside would benefit from emergency funding? Sorry, your conspiracy theory is all wet.
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timberghost
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Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 1335 | TRs | Pics
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| Joseph wrote: | | altasnob wrote: | | I'm not saying anything other than neither you, nor I, nor Cliff Mass, or even BigBrunyonAI, can accurately forecast the weather more than about a week out. I am just wondering if we do return to normal precipitation for the water year, does Department of Ecology decide to stop dolling out that $4.5 million? I don't know the answer to this, but I assume once they announce the money is available, it is available regardless of what the future weather brings us. |
bingo. Follow the $$$. Its a complete scam. We're in Washington remember. |
Agree 100% a complete scam
Joseph
Joseph |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7768 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:30 am |
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| Joseph wrote: | | bingo. Follow the $$$. Its a complete scam. We're in Washington remember. |
Found the flat earther!  Is all a conspiracy. All the world's scientists are trying to fool us into not pollution so much. Only bloggers know this one trick!
Malachai Constant
Malachai Constant |
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uww
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Joined: 16 Dec 2015
Posts: 323 | TRs | Pics
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uww
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Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:05 am |
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This goes even deeper- just think about who profits when we have abundant clean air and dirty air is at a premium.
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altasnob
Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 1427 | TRs | Pics
Location: Tacoma |
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altasnob
Member
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Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:24 am |
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Why are you talking about clean air and pollution? That has nothing to do with Ecology's drought declaration and the tax payer's dollars they plan to spend. Below are some examples of projects that the Ecology will fund based on the emergency drought declaration. There is nothing wrong with anyone auditing or critiquing the government's use of tax dollars. Last I checked, money doesn't grow on trees. I assume a major reason Seattle, Everett, and Tacoma are excluded from the drought declaration is not just because they have their own reservoirs to tap, it's because they are large cities, with a large pool of experienced grant writers on staff who would be able to snap up all the available grant money versus, say, some rural community who is not as experienced filing a grant request with Ecology.
| Quote: | | Agriculture or livestock
• Purchasing or leasing water or water rights to be used during the drought period for
instream or out-of-stream beneficial uses.
• Developing alternate source(s) of water supply, or mitigating use of existing emergency
sources, to supplement an insufficient source.
• Replacing intakes, pumps, and related accessories.
• Replacing leaky or damaged pipelines or installing new transmission pipelines to provide
system reliability.
• Improving canals and laterals with control structures.
• Lining of leaky canals.
• Upgrading diversion structures.
• Addition of reregulating reservoirs.
• Installation of measuring devices that improve efficiency of irrigation.
• Modifying an existing source or deepening an existing well.
• Developing an intertie or alternate water source in conjunction with an adjacent water
supplier.
• Irrigation scheduling programs and activities.
Public water supply
• Developing alternate source(s) of water supply, or mitigating use of existing emergency
sources, to supplement an insufficient source.
• Transportation of emergency water supplies for public health and sanitation.
• Implementing water conservation strategies.
• Water use reduction programs and activities, including leak detection or other water
conservation actions that can lead to demonstrable reduction in water demand or
increased availability.
Fisheries and wildlife
• Actions to ensure fish survival and health within hatcheries, which may include
improvement to water quality, water supply, or other measures.
• Projects that eliminate migration barriers, such as temporary structures to increase flow
velocity or depth.
• Modifying stream channels adjacent to a hatchery to ensure passage to the facility.
• Stream channel modification such as trenching, sandbagging, or creating berms to
protect spawning gravels or to provide migratory channels for fish passage.
• Temporary streamflow diversion to critical bird nesting habitat or wetland habitat
populated by priority species, as identified by the state Department of Fish and Wildlife
(WDFW).
• Temporary impoundment of water in existing wetland habitat populated by priority
species, as identified by WDFW.
• Temporary streamflow diversion to upland watering devices. |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3598 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:30 pm |
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| altasnob wrote: | | I'm not saying anything other than neither you, nor I, nor Cliff Mass, or even BigBrunyonAI, can accurately forecast the weather more than about a week out. I am just wondering if we do return to normal precipitation for the water year, does Department of Ecology decide to stop dolling out that $4.5 million? I don't know the answer to this, but I assume once they announce the money is available, it is available regardless of what the future weather brings us. |
Forecasting larger weather patterns for larger areas can be fairly accurate, depending on how one defines accurate. And that is what is happening with this drought emergency declaration. The declaration expedites things. Whether some think that is necessary is a political sort of question.
Anyway, don't know if it's been posted yet but here is the Washington State Department of Ecology page about the issued drought emergency.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 7768 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:03 pm |
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If you want to learn how drought declarations work, you can use Google or take a civics class. Information has never been more widely available than it is now.
"In Washington, drought is declared when there is less than 75% of normal water supply and there is the risk of undue hardship."
That's from the Department of Ecology.
We were in a drought last year. Winter wasn't enough to get us out of one. The long term outlook for the spring and summer is dry.
Sure, it could hypothetically rain for 40 days and 40 nights, and cover the top of Mount Rainier. But mitigating a water shortage is based on the reality we're in, not unlikely hypotheticals.
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altasnob
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 1427 | TRs | Pics
Location: Tacoma |
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altasnob
Member
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Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:33 pm |
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| RumiDude wrote: | | Forecasting larger weather patterns for larger areas can be fairly accurate, depending on how one defines accurate. |
I don't know how you define accurate, but NOAA says "a 10-day—or longer—forecast is only right about half the time." Cliff Mass calls long term forecast snake oil and not possible for both theoretical and practical reasons.
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altasnob
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 1427 | TRs | Pics
Location: Tacoma |
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altasnob
Member
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Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:34 pm |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | | If you want to learn how drought declarations work, you can use Google or take a civics class. Information has never been more widely available than it is now.
"In Washington, drought is declared when there is less than 75% of normal water supply and there is the risk of undue hardship." |
You could also just bother to read what others post. I posted this same thing back on page 2 of this thread.
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3598 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Fri Apr 26, 2024 3:36 pm |
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| altasnob wrote: | | RumiDude wrote: | | Forecasting larger weather patterns for larger areas can be fairly accurate, depending on how one defines accurate. |
I don't know how you define accurate, but NOAA says "a 10-day—or longer—forecast is only right about half the time." Cliff Mass calls long term forecast snake oil and not possible for both theoretical and practical reasons. |
Forecasting likelihood of a drought is not the same thing as forecasting the exact weather for the next ten days. There are certain features that dominate weather patterns over the long term. One of the major features is the temperature of the Pacific Ocean. For us here in the PNW, El Nino, ocean temperature, is among the major features that will determine our general weather. El Nino is relatively stable for much longer than 10 days. Also, getting a few inches of rain over the next month in one particular area will likely have little effect on the larger area's moisture evaluation and outlook. In other words our ability to forecast weather in specific locations over the next ten days does not mean that the general pattern of a given larger area cannot be forecast with relative accuracy. The 10 day forecast is irrelevant to this discussion.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
Anne Elk
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
Anne Elk
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