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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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 Wed May 01, 2024 9:45 am |
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| altasnob wrote: | | The entire goal of this experiment is to get a grizzly population that can migrate back and forth to Canada and someday, inter-breed with the much larger, and much healthier population of grizzlies in the BC Coast Range. |
If griz could migrate back and forth across the border, they'd already be doing it. That's why my preference was to improve habitat wherever possible to enable it. The only place the relocated griz are going to migrate given the current lay of the land is to the closest garbage cans, picnic baskets, and livestock. 
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
 slabbyd
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
slabbyd
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altasnob
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Location: Tacoma |
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altasnob
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Wed May 01, 2024 9:52 am |
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| Anne Elk wrote: | | If griz could migrate back and forth across the border, they'd already be doing it. |
Not when the grizzly population in Skagit and Manning Park (100% natural) are on life support. The grizzly dumps in WA are meant to give those populations an extra boost so that they might actually be able to move north and mix with the Coast Range. Or maybe they move East to the already existing, 100% natural, grizzly population in the WA Selkirks. And if not, maybe the WA and Skagit/Manning park grizzlies can form a healthy island population like in Yellowstone.
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Cyclopath
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Cyclopath
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Wed May 01, 2024 9:52 am |
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Has anybody suggested paving the North Cascades ecosystem and putting up a theme park? Maybe there could be animatronic bears singing Disney songs, and speakers built into the trail? If too much nature is a problem, let's find a solution.
 Grand Canyon
 idoru
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altasnob
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altasnob
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Wed May 01, 2024 10:09 am |
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| allan6344 wrote: | | I still don't see anything in the "Joint Record of Decision" that says they won't or can't drop them off anywhere in the NEP boundary. |
Go back and read the quote from the Record of Decision I posted (or just read it in the Record of Decision itself posted on page 38 of this thread). It says release location will be on National Park Service lands and only released in adjacent National Forest lands if there are unforeseen circumstances. This narrows down the possible release locations substantially from the much larger Nonessential Experimental Population (NEP) Boundary.
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allan6344
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I did read it carefully and in particular pages six and seven of the Joint Record of Decision. I think the area they will use will be bigger than we would like to believe keeping in mind the bear's range.
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FiresideChats
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Location: San Juan Islands |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018
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Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Wed May 01, 2024 3:34 pm |
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^^^ It's more than what a female griz would normally do, but not out of the realm of possibility for what any griz could do, given the need to search for food or more of her own kind. Humans think they're so smart; they know nothing of what that kind of relocation does to disorient a bear. Or any animal. It all starts sounding like animal abuse after a while. 
On a related subject, check out Schroder's post about what happened to all the re-located Olympic goats, and the declining goat population in general: https://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1267379#1267379
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Joseph
Joseph
Joined: 13 Jun 2018
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Joseph
Joseph
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Sat May 04, 2024 4:59 pm |
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| Cyclopath wrote: | Has anybody suggested paving the North Cascades ecosystem and putting up a theme park? Maybe there could be animatronic bears singing Disney songs, and speakers built into the trail? If too much nature is a problem, let's find a solution.
Grand Canyon |
And now, for the strawman arguments....
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slabbyd
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slabbyd
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Mon May 06, 2024 8:18 am |
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An interesting quote from an interesting article. If the biologists have their way, there will be few grizzly bear sightings because everyone will be to scared to go hiking...or more likely vast areas of NCNP will be closed to human visitation.
"Biologists aren’t concerned about relocated grizzlies further jeopardizing mountain goat populations in the North Cascades. And, biologists with the Tulalip Tribes are interested to see if recreation decreases once grizzlies are moved to Washington. Fewer hikers in mountain goat habitat could help."
Mtn Goat Relocation Outcomes
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Schroder
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Schroder
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Mon May 06, 2024 12:45 pm |
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Latest article in the Times
Grizzlies are returning to WA’s North Cascades. How will that work?
| Quote: | | Federal officials plan to relocate 25 grizzlies to the mountain range. They hope the population will naturally recover to about 200 bears in a century. |
| Quote: | | the carrying capacity of the ecosystem increased from initial estimates of 280 to as many as 578 bears. |
| Quote: | | The Glacier Peak wilderness, the Chilliwack and the northern parts of the park might hold some of the best habitat, but the bears will tell us what they need and where they want to be when they arrive, said Jason Ransom, a North Cascades wildlife biologist and a co-author on the study.
“In terms of whether they can survive or not, the odds are in their favor,” Ransom said. “And they’re also generalists. They’re really good at figuring out where the food is, and they can adjust and they’re pretty flexible in their diet.” |
| Quote: | | Each bear will have a radio collar for their first few years in their new home, offering semiregular updates on the bears’ whereabouts. Ransom will also be seeking scat samples to get a better idea of what the bears are eating. |
....scat with bells in it that smells like pepper
runup
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Chief Joseph
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I still say that the Griz will simply move to Canada.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Schroder
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Schroder
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Mon May 06, 2024 1:58 pm |
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| Chief Joseph wrote: | | I still say that the Griz will simply move to Canada. |
Some might but the ones they drop around in around the Mtn Loop Highway will have a few obstacles
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Cyclopath
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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Cyclopath
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Mon May 06, 2024 2:49 pm |
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| slabbyd wrote: | | Fewer hikers in mountain goat habitat could help |
If I had a dollar for every time somebody on nwhikers told me fewer hikers hiking is good, I'd have my own island. So this isn't really an unusual or villainous opinion.
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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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Mon May 06, 2024 2:51 pm |
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This is concerning, especially at a time when so many other wild animal and plant populations are declining, habitat continues to be lost, and the overall conditions that life needs are deteriorating. 
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Schroder
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Schroder
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Mon May 06, 2024 3:07 pm |
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On the plus side they caught a moose on camera going through the I-90 wildlife crossing at Resort Creek.
Chief Joseph, NWtrax
Chief Joseph, NWtrax |
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