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Redwic Unlisted Free Agent
Joined: 23 Feb 2009 Posts: 3292 | TRs | Pics Location: Going to the Prom(inence) |
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Redwic
Unlisted Free Agent
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:40 am
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60 pounds lighter but not 60 points brighter.
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Doppelganger
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ranger rock One of the boys
Joined: 14 Dec 2011 Posts: 2550 | TRs | Pics
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The Angry Hiker SAR Blacklistee
Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 2890 | TRs | Pics Location: Kentwila |
Perhaps the time has come for warnings signs on trees.
All of them.
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Lono Member
Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 930 | TRs | Pics
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Lono
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:00 am
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Dead tree in a USFS *maintained* campsite = potential liability for not removing it. "it had been dead for years" = possible neglect and failure to remove the tree, resulting in injury. Doesn't matter if there is no money for tree removal or even witting maintenance programs with safety of campers as a concern - there generally are, question is can FS districts adequately fund them on budgetary chicken droppings. I suspect there are thousands of dead trees out there ready to blow over and invoke lawsuits from the unlucky. If these folks had camped in my front yard and been killed by a Doug Fir on my property with known root rot that I had failed to remove, I'd expect a lawsuit as well. Knowledge of a hazard implies an obligation to remove or mitigate it, in the case of trees we cut them down. Only question is whether the allegations are true, and even if so, can the federal government be held liable for their acts or inactions.
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wolffie Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 2693 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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wolffie
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:11 am
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Lock up all those dead trees. We're too soft on crime.
And get all those loose rocks off the trails, too. Somebody might get hurt.
Lono wrote: | Knowledge of a hazard implies an obligation to remove or mitigate it |
So if I get hit by a meteorite, I can sue NASA for not putting up a net?
Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
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grannyhiker Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 3519 | TRs | Pics Location: Gateway to the Columbia Gorge |
This suit will undoubtedly lead to campground closures where, for budgetary or other reasons, they can't do hazard mitigation. We've already seen a favorite Oregon state park campground (Oswald West) closed, although that was more because the alternative was to cut down most of the beautiful Sitka Spruce trees there.
On the other hand, shouldn't campers exercise some due diligence by not camping under dead trees?
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
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Hulksmash Cleaning up.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 7113 | TRs | Pics Location: Arlington |
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Hulksmash
Cleaning up.
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:16 am
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Here's how I chose a camp site.
1. Are there any widow makers. Like are there any obvious dead trees/dead limbs.
2. Is thee leftover food/wrappers scattered about if so the camp site is now a critter buffet now.
3. Does the site have reasonable access to water.
4. Is there reasonable access to answer mother nature in the middle of the night.
5. Is it level.
6. does it conform to #1
7. does it conform to #6
Seriously don't camp near dead trees.
"Bears couldn't care less about us....we smell bad and don't taste too good. Bugs on the other hand see us as vending machines." - WetDog
Albuterol! it's the 11th essential
"Bears couldn't care less about us....we smell bad and don't taste too good. Bugs on the other hand see us as vending machines." - WetDog
Albuterol! it's the 11th essential
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Daryl Big Shot Economist
Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Posts: 1817 | TRs | Pics
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Daryl
Big Shot Economist
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:24 am
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So the forest service is supposed to maintain campsites created by users outside of campgrounds? Hope this gets thrown out.
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Stefan Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 5093 | TRs | Pics
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Stefan
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:40 am
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I wonder if the father was cutting the tree with an axe and the tree fell on his son.
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7754 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:46 am
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To some extent, I think you're accepting a level of risk when you enter the backcountry, and a little bit more when you stay overnight. If nature was a completely sanitized place, life would be a lot more disappointing.
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ranger rock One of the boys
Joined: 14 Dec 2011 Posts: 2550 | TRs | Pics
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It sounds like they were in a dispersed camping area. This could mean the end of dispersed camping.. but I bet it gets thrown out.
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MtnManic Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2008 Posts: 502 | TRs | Pics Location: Kirkland WA |
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MtnManic
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:01 am
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A campground on Swauk Pass was closed a few years back because of the danger of widow-makers - an official one, that is, not dispersed.
Backpacking: limited to one pack at a time. Cameras: limited to as many as I can carry.
Backpacking: limited to one pack at a time. Cameras: limited to as many as I can carry.
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:29 pm
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I wonder if the parents are the actual instigators of the lawsuit -- or if they have been compelled to sue by their medical insurance carrier...
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Slugman It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 16874 | TRs | Pics
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:18 pm
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It's not going to be the end of anything, no need to panic. It will likely be a lost case as an act of God, due to the windstorm, or be an assumed risk.
Just a couple of weeks ago I had to find an alternate tent site other than my first choice due to widow makers dangling above.
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