[Allison]

Let me put it another way: It's really insulting to be labeled that way. Knock it off.

[Tom]

Who said he labeled you that way? I think he's referring to groups who would go so far as to lobby the road be closed.

[Allison]

[MtnGoat]

Ok. i'll refer to people who want to close roads for their personal views, or people who want to close roads because they don't think others should get to use them because they don't like that use, or people who want to close roads because they don't like the idea of others recreating using vehicles on an already existing road. or whatever. elitists describes it succinctly IMO, especially given the kind of language used to defend same which is NOT neutral, but if that bothers you I can put the truth in more detailed manner... but the meaning wlll remain the same. Henceforth, I'll change my words...except in cases where the defense of closures moves into "we're better" territory. at that point, elitism is the correct word.

[Malachai Constant]

Just the facts here is The EIS there were something like 36 individuals commented and the overwealming majority wanted to reopen the road. Two small groups opposed there does not seem to be any lawsuit by anyone just a statement by one group that they "may" appeal depending what the FS recommends. None of the "usual suspects" i.e. Sierra Club, Mountaineers, WEC, WTA etc. objected. My opinion is it will be settled on the basis of budgets and not much else.

[MtnGoat]

fair enough. is budgeting by district? I'm wondering if they're having to split funds between prospective fixes to the White Chuck bridge vs the Loop, or if both can go forward. I don't remember if they're in the same district.

[Guiran]

The Mtn Loop, Suiattle River Road, and White Chuck River Road (major 2003 damage) are all in the Darrington Ranger District. There's also a lot of trail damage (e.g. major bridges) that need repair, but I assume that has to come out of a separate budget. I was always under the impression that the big hold-up on these repairs was budget, not environmental impact. The repairs proposed in the EA seem reasonable and well thought out. The FS seems to have done a good job balancing access, cost of repair, and environmental impact. The section on rejected alternatives includes a number of lower cost options that would have a deleterious effect on the river. I don't really understand the Pilchuck Audubon Society's objections.

[aestivate]

[Quark]

Yup, the budgets - and the funding - come from different sources. Sometimes the delay is funding, sometimes EIS/EAs. Some, but surely not all, stupid aren't decisions made by the FS at all, but dictated by the various user groups and evnironmentalists, and the court, if it comes to suit. From what I understand, the PCT repair funding is finally in place (not Trail Park pass dollars, but some road funding of some sort), but the footbridges haven't been designed and EIS on the new footbridges and any re-routes, if necessary, haven't been performed (they can't, until the bridges are designed and the re-routes, identified). The new White Chuck trail location has been identitified, but there's no funding for it to be built. It's a wacky, wacky world out there in Fedland. [posted while asevatatie was posting his post]

[Guiran]

Quark, what's the plan for the White Chuck Trail? I haven't read anything about it.

[Damian]

Me either. Must have missed the tea party.

[seawallrunner]

more about White Chuck here: http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mbs/projects/flood-damage-roads/whitechuck-repair.shtml

[captain jack]

[MtnGoat]

well, there you have it. other folks should walk cause the cap'n says so!

[seawallrunner]

> Why does this area have to be a loop road? Cause I can get to Barlow faster this way? > People are getting fatter in this country by the minute, we need less reasons to stay in climate controlled comfort in the wilderness, not more. Walk more,use less oil, fewer people die, so road closure=a healthier america Some of us will be spending more time in our cars if this loop isn't reopened. Oh My God! Make It Stop! Nice try, captain jack