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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 3144 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cleaning up the dogma. |
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
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 Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:56 pm |
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| MtnGoat wrote: | | Commence armwaving about making comparisons to the unknowable, deciding this is abnormal compared to what you don't know the reason for in the first place… i am interested in is who knows the 'normal' temp we "should" be at now, and the proof that they know this… |
All irrelevant.
There are presumably hundreds of respected studies that prove fossil fuel consumption contributes to global warming. Only one of those studies has to be right.
If it’s your contention that all of those studies are wrong, that’s fine. Show your proof.
Until then, reasonableness and common sense dictate that at least one of those studies is right — and therefore, we have a duty to curb our reliance on fossil fuels.
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
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greg
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Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 1159 | TRs | Pics
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greg
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:57 pm |
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Knew you couldn't hold back on this one Goat. 
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:58 pm |
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This thread is going to get locked in a New York minute. Can't you guys take the causes of warming to PMs so the discussion can proceed?
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:16 pm |
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don't get the knickers in a twist on my account..
1) number one, look at the time of post vs my statements concerning not leading a politics suit
2) pointing out we have no way of knowing what "normal" is, is factual, not political
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 3144 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cleaning up the dogma. |
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:39 pm |
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Nobody has said anything about politics.
What is "normal" or "abnormal" is irrelevant. If one can't prove all of the studies wrong, then reasonableness and common sense dictate we should act to curb fossil fuel consumption.
It's that simple.
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
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kleet
meat tornado
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 5303 | TRs | Pics
Location: O no they dih ent |
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kleet
meat tornado
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:39 pm |
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WWRPD?*
*What would Ross Perot do?
A fuxk, why do I not give one?
A fuxk, why do I not give one?
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 3144 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cleaning up the dogma. |
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:41 pm |
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Careful. With that cowbell avatar and a certain poster here, I just might give you some cowbell.
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16100 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
| kleet wrote: | | WWRPD?*
*What would Ross Perot do? |
He would get up and smell the coffee, check what is causing all that noise under the hood and get rid of that crazy aunt up in the attic 
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Tom
Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 17855 | TRs | Pics
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Tom
Admin
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:58 pm |
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| marylou wrote: | | This thread is going to get locked in a New York minute. Can't you guys take the causes of warming to PMs so the discussion can proceed? |
Sounds civil to me (nonwithstanding the subsequent noise) and nobody has felt compelled to bring up the war in Iraq, those darn evil corporations, walmart, etc. But what else is there to discuss or debate other than:
1) things are warmer than earlier this century (observable)
2) glaciers are melting (observable)
3) it is a normal trend (debatable)
4) it is something we are impacting (debatable)
5) it is something we can control (debatable)
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:59 pm |
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| Quote: | | What is "normal" or "abnormal" is irrelevant. |
Then why do you continually claim that what warming is occurring is abnormal as compared to the norm, if this is irrelevant?
for my money, tom's list nails of observables vs debatables nails it. don't bother claiming normal vs abnormal is irrelevant......then dive right back into making claims using normal as a baseline for derivation of abnormal, excessive, additional, unnatural, or whatever... all of which are *relative* to some norm which is itself unknown.
no politics here, just discussing the issue of how you can measure or determine what isn't normal, without knowing and proving what is normal.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16100 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
The reason that "normal" is irrelevant is because it as Donald Rumsfeld would say "an unknowable unknown". That is you cannot know what "normal" is because you have no baseline. We know That "normal" a century was a couple degrees cooler, 30,000 years ago about 5 degrees cooler but 1,000,000 years ago it was several degrees warmer. It is possible that were it not for emissions we would be in the midst of an Ice Age. As a person who enjoys snow sports glacier climbs and an owner of beachfront I do not wish to see it get much warmer.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:46 pm |
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| Quote: | | The reason that "normal" is irrelevant is because it as Donald Rumsfeld would say "an unknowable unknown". That is you cannot know what "normal" is because you have no baseline. |
Which is of course, my point.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:07 pm |
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See, I guess I was looking past the "global warming" issue (in order to keep the politics out of it) and looking forward to a discussion of the impacts of this so-called "warming." What's it gonna do to the environment?
But if it's okay for us to discuss the causes of global warming on this forum, then I concede. I thought that was a lot of the issue, but I'ze mistaken. 
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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Tom
Admin
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Tom
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:31 pm |
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List of potential impacts of warming discussed so far:
- goodbye to the polar bears
- more moats
- fewer ice caves
- more peasoup lakes
- ferocious mosquitos
- disease and food shortage
- beach front property a "sell"
- forest service cabins a "buy"
Did I miss anything? 
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:32 pm |
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well, it's gonna warm up the 'vironment. ice melts, rainfall shifts, some areas get drier, others get wetter, glaciers recede..heck, that's the obvious stuff! who knows what all the effects can be. I know if you like big ice, take a good look around as it sure looks like that look is one you won't be able to get in ten years, let alone 100.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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