[Backpacker Joe]

Anyone seen this? Honda Accord that gets 76MPG. A turbo diesel. Can you even imagine how this car would positively effect peoples lives? 76 MPG, it could help so many people in the lower income budgets.... Good lord why isn't this car in the US? http://www.carpages.co.uk/honda/honda_diesel_sets_new_world_records_12_05_04.asp?switched=on&echo=807960405

[lookout bob]

probably banned by the oil industry...

[touron]

I wish Honda still made the CRX.

[Justan]

Most diesel engine vehicles not imported into the US arent imported because they run on low sulfur diesel. For some vehicles, the DOT regs make it not worth the effort. Plus diesel has never had the appeal in the US that it does in Europe. In I think it will be in ’07 that the US gov is mandating a great reduction in the amount of sulfur for diesel. Following this change there will be a vast number of entrants into this arena. Of course diesel will probably be around $4.50 per gallon by then. Of course this says nothing about the latest GM gas engine efforts made in China which get around 40+ MPG and sell in China for about $5,000 (in US dollars).

[BarePaw]

[Justan]

You made an interesting observation. Wouldn’t it be ironic if the price of fuel causes a resurgence in farming to make bio-d and other derivatives? Well not that ironic. Since crops rely heavily on petroleum products you‘d expect it wouldn’t be exactly cheap to cultivate, and I bet the consumption of the country would vastly outstrip the growing ability but it would make for a lot more than a niche market. Has anyone come across literature on how much bio-d can be produced with an acre of reasonable productive land? The Audi is sweeeeeet. Why would you feel guilty about owning one?

[Backpacker Joe]

You can make bio diesel for around .70 cents a gallon.

[Dante]

The diesel options in the US will increase (1) when we have ULSD and (2) as fuel prices go up. Another factor is the increased cost of a diesel engine over a gasoline engine - a diesel can take a while to pay for itself - especially if fuel prices are relatively low. On the other hand, diesels last longer than gasoline engines in addition to being significantly more efficient. As to biodiesel, I suspect the price of commercial biodiesel will always be "pegged" to petrodiesel. Production costs are only part of the pricing equation. Seattle "liberals" like me will pay a premium for the good stuff There's lots of info on biodiesel online. I frequent www.biodieselnow.com and the biodiesel forum at www.tdiclub.com is good. How productive an acre is depends on the feedstock. IIRC, canola/rapeseed will produce more than soy. OTOH, no one grows soy for the oil. They grow it for the meal. The oil is a byproduct. I used to use commercial biodiesel that was a byproduct of Proctor & Gambel's soap production operations, so the fuel was actually a tertiary product (soy meal being primary and soap being secondary). Some biodiesel is also made with waste cooking oil - a recycled waste product. Still, you are right, Justan, biodiesel can't replace petroleum diesel or even make a significant dent given our thirst for fuel. Every little bit helps, though...

[Justan]

Not sure the cost of a d engine is a factor. While I don’t pretend to know manufacturing or sales pricing, diesel engine vehicles sell for about the same as comparable gassers. Everything I've read strongly suggests that diesel is a) more reliable, b) have far fewer components, c) require less frequent and less expensive maintenance. This is for all but the latest generation. I've heard that many of the latest examples have failures due to electronic components. So all that happens is that at worse, the cost is shifted rather than diminished. For this change, the fuel consumption gains anywhere between 30% and up to 200% depending on the what was the model for the previous vehicle. Of course if you go from a small efficient vehicle to a 4 ton behemoth you’re not gonna see any improvement. Thanks for the links! I'm going to investigate. I've been thinking about buying a wagon with a d engine and converting it to run on some alternate fuel choices.

[Dante]

I bought a 2000 VW Golf GLS TDI new and love it. Despite performance modifications, a heavy foot, burning a lot of biodiesel (fewer BTUs/gallon) and our local traffic, it has averaged over 43 mpg over the life of the car. Backpacker Joe's TDI Jetta does better - in the low '50s IIRC - but he drives a lot more freeway miles. Diesels are a little more expensive - at least new. Using the VW Golf GLS as an example, the gasoline version has an MSRP of $18,930 while the diesel's MSRP is $19,580, and lately diesels have been selling for MSRP while gassers get discounted. An $1,190 doesn't sound like much, but other things equal you wont see a finacial savings for 50,000 miles. Gas Golf GLS = 31 mpg highway $2.50/31 = .056818 TDI Golf GLS = 44 mpg highway $2.50/44 = .080645 .080645 - .056818 = $0.023827 savings per mile $1,190/.023827 = 49,943.38 miles Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge diesel fan. I'm just trying to stay objective. A TDI made sense for me because I'm a "buy it and drive it until the wheels fall off" kind of guy. I expect to see the odometer turn over a couple times. Oh, and no conversion is necessary to run biodiesel in newer diesels. Older cars with rubber fuel lines may need new Viton fuel lines, but that;s it. Running straight vegetable oil requires more modifications. 2000 WVW Golf GLS, Skid Plate, OilGuard & Cat filters, Shine Suspension, VR6 clutch, LSD, PP520s, 11mm pump, Oldman Intake, DG Race & IC Pipes, B100

[Guiran]

Sales of diesel passenger cars in the US are restricted since emissions of NOx and particulate are higher for diesels than gasoline engines. If everyone in Seattle switched to diesel, we'd have a pretty big local air quality issue.

[Dante]

[Guiran]

Personally, I think diesels are great vehicles, but the Mercedes solution to the NOx issue isn't perfect since you need to fill up a separate tank with Urea to reduce NOx emissions for the BLUETEC converter to work. I suppose you could pee in the tank...

[Dante]

Reducing diesel NOx emissions is a tough nut to crack. None of the solutions I've read about are perfect. Most of them are similar to Mercedes' NOx is one area where biodiesel is actually worse than petrodiesel. It actually increases NOx emissions...

[Kat]

My mom owned a v6 BMW quite a while back, in Holland. It had been modified so it could run both gasoline, and propane. I drove this myself thru several Euro countries, an interesting experiment at the time. The extra propane tank was in the trunk. You could switch between fuels while driving by flicking a switch under the steering wheel. Just a slight "cough" and it was running again. At the time, propane was cheaper than gas there. Don't know about now. The one kicker was not all the refueler attachments were standard between countries then... I remember forcing one on, and having it frozen on for about 20 minutes before we could remove it!!! Anyway, just an interesting alternative to the Diesel/bio-diesel debate