[Karen]

I don't mean to sound grouchy but this subject has been written on more than once. My take: it is subjective. Anyone who goes out into the mountains has a different opinion (for example) as to what "exposure" means and there has been and always will be a fine line between scrambling and climbing. AND between hiking and scrambling. It's even different on different days .... like Del Campo. The first time I climbed THAT it wasn't scary. The second time it was. The third time it wasn't. What changed? Me. Pappy, I agree with you totally. I found myself nodding my head in agreement as I read your comments. Karen

[Backpacker Joe]

Good point Miss. Karen. This topic gets some good opinions. TB

[#19]

[Stefan]

[#19]

as you can see. REAL climbers know the truth LINK

[MCaver]

I've never understood the animosity some of the people over at cascadeclimbers.com have for this website, or where it came from. Doesn't matter, really, since I couldn't care less what they think. It just seems odd.

[REJ]

I went to the dictionary climb: "To move upward by using the hands and feet" hike: (noun) A long walk or march; hiking (verb) To go on an extended walk for pleasure or exercise. In my mind: hiking is done on a trail whether its a formal or informal trail (e.g. Pacific Crest Trail, Cascade Pass, Sauk Mountain, Mailbox Peak); scrambling is done off trail when a rope is not needed and may or may not include the use of hands (e.g. Mt Si summit block, Round Mountain, Snoqualmie Peak, Annapurna, Vespers, etc); climbing is when a rope may be needed (Class 3 and above) (e.g. Del Campo, Sahale, Guye Pk, Lundin, etc). Borderline (hike or scramble) cases include Pugh and Persis. I used my hands several times on Pugh although you wouldn't have to. The route to Persis follows a well defined although informal trail. Anytime you have to use an ice axe for safety its at least a scramble (e.g. Ruth Mountain; Silver Star, most steep snow slopes in winter)

[Backpacker Joe]

Well Im not good at pulling punches, but based on the general responce to Allison's question via cascade climbers site I'd say the difference between hikersna dn climbers is that Hikers are generally polite, kind, and considerate of others! Those climbers are F***ing As***holes! I know I'm generalizig, but to many of those responces were insulting, mean, nasty and not called for at all! You haven't seen ONE responce to Allison's question on THIS site that is disrespectful in any way! Why does someone want to hang out on a site like that? TB

[Allison]

I'll take that one, BPJ. Because most of the people I know in real life from cc.com are really cool.

[#19]

I think it is interesting that you took the pulse of both sites ( although I think you're laughing your off). But some of the crap spewed over there is pretty hilarious. I especially like the part where one of them didn't think hikers wore high tech clothing or went above the treeline.

[Allison]

Very astute, Pappy! I am LMAO!

[Alfred E. Neuman]

'Tis a silly question, but you asked and everbody needs the Mad opinion. That's what the internet is all about -- spouting opinions right and left and center. The Mountaineers have defined climbing as using technical gear like ropes and protection, or aid, for ascending and descending. Scrambling does not use any technical gear, but involves hands. Climbing ought to be any activity involving going uphill. Like the steps from the waterfront to Pike Place Market. Like the north face of the Eiger. Like Mt Dickerman. What's the difference between jogging and running? Runners are more snobby than joggers (as climbers to hikers). Hiking, ambling, sashaying, moseying... all the same. You can climb Mt Dickerman, or you can trek. You can climb into your SUV, the corporate ladder, you can climb downhill, you can climb up with down gear, you can climb down with Lowe gear, you can be a real climber with macho gear names like Mountain Hardware, or be a wannabe climber with dufus gear like army surplus wool pants. You can hike with your dog, you can climb with your yak, you can trek with your poles, you can scramble eggs, you can argue semantics on the web... or you hike/climb/scramble/trek instead of writing blather about it. Blah blah blah blah blah. I feel much more important now that I've said my piece on this important topic!!!!

[Backpacker Joe]

I just dont understand the attitude! I've done my share of 5.8, 5.9, 5.10 climbing in the past. I didnt act like that. Where's the hollier than thou attitude come from? I dont have the personallity to put up with that crap. I dont doubt that Allison is correct in that most of the people she knows from the CC site are ok. If there were that many jerk off's like that on this site, I wouldnt hang here either! No sir, being a jack off takes a conserted effort. It takes less energy to be nice! TB

[Sore Feet]

[Backpacker Joe]

When I worked at Marmot, there were a couple big wall guys that went down to the valley often. They told me they often saw climbers with porters on the long trip to Half Dome! TB