[GoBlueHiker]

I've read one report of a kayak descent down that creek. It looked pretty gnarly! Odds are you've probably already seen it, but if not I'll go try and look it up for you (or you can Google it and prolly find it easily enough yourself). If/when you go, I'd love to hear about it. Sounds like a great trip. EDIT: Here it is, if you hadn't seen it before. #1 Google hit for "Tshletshy Creek": http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River_detail_id_3148_ - Mike

[Luc]

you have balls. we like balls.

[captain jack]

Major windstorms in the last couple of years have brought down massive trees in that area. Cross country travel, which is what your talking about, because there is really no maintained trail, will be slow and tiring. Plan on going under and over 100' long, 10' diameter Douglas Fir blowdowns, some stacked in jumbles over 30' high, most laid west to east, which is crossing the direction you wish to go. Going in from the top with just a multiday backpack, it would still be a strenuous trip just to get to Paradise Meadows. Dragging a kayak in there would be insane. I think you would have an easier time going in from the Queets, then going upstream from the Smith Place. Hike up with your boats as far as you can get. The good news that way is, if you get into trouble you can backtrack. Plus you can preview all the falls and plunges before you run them. If you go in from Three Lakes then its a one way trip.

[forgreen]

Hey, Bud are you ready to do it again? Maybe from 3 lakes this time and pack a dozen rolls of flagging to open it up again?

[forgreen]

If you take your time, the Queets end of the trail can be followed until you reach the top of the ridge where you encounter lots of blowdown. If you are wearing corks you can stay on top the blowdown and work your way through picking up the old trail on the other side. Be careful not to go to far to the left or you will be heading back down to the Queets by a northern route. This blowdown was the worst part of the trail the last time I went over it. 20 years or so ago.

[forgreen]

Part of the fun of traveling and old trail like the Tshletshy is finding the old trail, looking for bucked ends of cut out windfalls and find old grades that some times switchback up or down to reach the best routes. When my cousin and I traversed it about twenty years ago, we spent a lot of time searching for the old trail but traveled over it for most of the way. Sometimes it looked just like an elk trail but eventually you would find an old mileage marker on a tree or a bucked windfall. We could have traveled much faster if we had just hiked instead of spending the time looking for the trail route but that was something we enjoyed. I doubt if most of the trail has received much more blowdown than it had when we hiked it because the valley is more protected than most from the nasty southerly gales. There is a spot on the Queets end of the trail at the top of the ridge between the Tshletshy and the Queets that has blown down and takes some time to navigate. It is beautiful country and not a bad trip for the experienced bush whacker if you are not in a hurry. Cliff

[Phil]

[forgreen]

It's great that you have the interest Phil but the terrain is not conducive to large parties of hikers. Sometimes you have to sleep in the middle of the trail because it is the only semi-level spot on the hillside. You can't count on being at specific spot to camp for the night because the distance you travel changes with the challenges of the terrain (ie. slides and windfalls). Before I even try this hike I am going to have to test my body to see if it can cash the check that my mind is ready to write. Good hiking, Cliff

[Dane]

Please don't flag the route.

[onemoremile]

I find that area to be difficult to hike because of the loose ground. On almost any angled surface, the ground just slides away because of all the forest floor biomass. When I find flat area near there it is usually in the form of a swamp. The other big obstacle is washouts. Most washout that interfere with other hikes tend to be ankle deep, but the Queets rainforest has a magic multiplying effect that makes them almost waist deep. Do you know if the big tree (the strainer) is still across the river? It fell in 2009, spanning the river below the upper boat launch; and the boaters couldn't navigate even up to last spring. Just wondering if it is still there. I have heard about kayakers carrying their boats into ONP up to the falls on Hayes River. Then yakking down the Elwha to Lake Mills.

[forgreen]

What is your reasoning for not flagging the trail?

[forgreen]

There is not a lot of forest duff in most of this area as it is underlain with rock and pretty stable. Of course there are some boggy areas but because most of the traffic on this trail is elk and not a lot of them it doesn't get muddy like the main trail on the Queets. I have heard of some yakers going down the Queets from Service Falls. The falls itself would be nasty as it looked like a couple of hundred feet drop. I don't know what is in the box canyon below it as there was only one place we could find to see it and we climbed down there and camped for the night. Which upper boat launch are you referring to the one at the end of the road or the one at Hartsell Creek? There was one tree across the river on the Hartsell Creek leg several years ago but the lower Queets has changed quite a bit just this winter and I don't think there is a problem there anymore. I haven't been down there this winter but have talked to friends who have and they didn't mention it. Those guys who pack their kayaks up those hills must be pretty tough.

[Dane]

[Phil]

[forgreen]

I too have removed flagging in areas that I feel should be pristine. Most of these flags are ones left by those who were participating in spotted owl and marbled murrelet surveys in the most remote timbered areas of the park. I consider the Tshletshy trail as a historical route that should be reopened and maintained for public use. It is the main route between the Quinault and Queets drainages and needs to have more traffic so that others will know what a nice area it is and thus put pressure on the Olympic Park Management to reopen it. The only feasible way to increase this is by marking the old trail. Flagging is probably the better short term way to identify the trail as blazing like the old timers sometimes destroy the trees. I call flagging a short term solution because it rarely last more than a couple of years. Years ago the local horse club built a 25 mile horse trail on public and private lands in the Clearwater River Drainage. The trail had to be reflagged annually because the flags were removed by curious elk and if the elk didn't get them after a couple of years the flags became brittle and fell apart. The elk didn't eat them, they just pulled them off and dropped them-several of us saw them doing this. I wonder your liability if you removed these ribbons from a marked route and caused someone to have a misfortune in the box canyons on Tshletshy? I think it is time for us to share our use of this area so that others who are not savvy enough for bush whacking may see it too!