[TeeJay]

$1600.00 for a pair of boots is pretty steep. I don't mind paying a premium for a quality product...but for $1600.00 the boots should be able to walk on their own and carry my pack.

[Malachai Constant]

Or at least be able to walk atop the Suiattle

[Charlie Van Gorkom]

Wish I could make them cheaper for you! The materials cost $350 and they take about 50 hours of very skilled handwork to produce per pair. This has been my sole income for 34 years, I need to buy groceries too!!

[Backcountry]

Charlie, I admire your craftsmanship and attention to detail! Sadly many of these "old world" skills are slowly disappearing!

[Charlie Van Gorkom]

Thank-you, Backcountry. I would join the world in bidding good riddance to old world technology and skills, but for a couple of things: 15% of the world's feet cannot comfortably fit the computer generated bell curve "norm" the robot mass bootmakers make (mostly in china) and, Human skin has not changed--the sythetic toxic chemicals of many boot materials slough and chafe the skin right off the good hiker, and, the human gait has not changed--not every one walks the same, feet don't flex the same, etc. and,there are injuries, bunions, arthritus, deformities, partial amputations, etc. All making the custom handmade boot a terrible necessity for the avid outdoor athletic hiker! And this is where I come in.

[joker]

Ditto on the admiration for the skills. I have not called to confirm, but saw an online review from earlier in 09 saying Limmer charged $600 for their custom fit boots. I would imagine that they have pretty similar materials in the boots, so presumably similar material costs. Leaves me wondering if they're simply accepting the low wage of $6/hr (versus more like the apparent $24 for Charlie, which is certainly not prince's wages), or are they somehow just a lot faster in their craftsmanship, or are these boots somehow constructed that much better? $6/hr was what many journeyman woodworkers seemed to be getting for their hard-earned skills in the early '80s, and it seemed pretty sad way back then (and an inspiration for me to shift from woodworking to computers, since I found both to be fun - I was only getting $4.50 an hour as I was still quite new at it and so both slower and not as able to do more complex tasks as these amazing $6/hr guys)... In any case, I'm happy to hear that you've managed to find enough of a market at that price to keep you well backordered. But I imagine you're also not surprised to hear the majority of hikers gasp at the price, particularly when the off-the-rack boots seem to be serving them well enough. Having worn Limmers for 2 decades, I do understand the difference, but as noted above, also have found a boot that adequately fits my foot among the current robot-crop (after trying many different models), and I appreciate the ligher weight of these admittedly flimsier boots. edited to add: ...but if you have a fit problem that can't be resolved "off-the-rack" and you consider the longevity of these custom boots (which I'm sure will last past multiple pair most store-bought boots), the value equation is really not that bad.

[Chief Joseph]

Hey Charlie, maybe you could get some elves to help you out since you have back orders?

[Conrad]

[Charlie Van Gorkom]

Good post, Joker! I am not an authority on what Limmer does and does not do. I have read that their uppers are made overseas by robots and then they custom fit them to the customers here when they put the soles onto them. I might be wrong on this, and please forgive me if I am. They DO make a good boot for the price! What I do is easier for me to talk about. Each of my boots is designed start to finish for the foot that will wear it and the conditions he would generally use them in. I also guarantee a perfect fit--this includes making another pair of boots, rebuilding or your money back--which I have heard Limmer does not do. (again, this is what people have told me--hearesay only) And my boots EACH include a custom made orthotic footbed that has been highly praised for its effectiveness and utter comfort. I could not do this if I did not get constant feedback from my clients telling me that every penny spent was worth it. A majority of my clients own more than one pair, some have three or four, which would include the Yukon Snow boots as well as the various hikers. I appreciate your comments and insights, your questions are good and observations right on! I've got to get back to work! I'm rebuilding a pair of Yukon snow boots for a forester that I made for him more than 20 years ago. He wears them for work! BTW it is typical that I repair my boots for the first time for clients after 10 to 20 years of hard use. The soles often only last about 8 years.

[joker]

That all makes good sense. Thanks for the reply. Dunno about who makes the uppers, but Limmer at least used to take boots back for a refund if they didn't fit right (and presumably you could opt to start over with a new pair). But that was back in the '70s (these boots really do last, folks!!); perhaps things have changed. Conrad - you're right. I was guessing overhead was not way out of whack compared to that which these woodworkers took on (their own insurance, a basic set of hand and measuring tools they bought and generally maintained outside of paid hours..., this does not include workspace but I also assumed a one-man boot shop can be set up in a small space, perhaps even one's home). I also assumed Limmer has similar overhead and was mostfly focusing on a comparison. But for sure there is more on the cost side of most businesses than the materials and hours per-widget. And for sure, something south of $24/hour is not outrageous for a rare and finely honed skill. And to underscore the comment I added to my post above, for the right person, I believe that $1600 for these boots is actually a reasonable value (longevity plus fit you may not be able to get otherwise, which can make the difference between permablisters and comfiness, which was where I was at in the '70s with my wide feet).

[Charlie Van Gorkom]

Yes, my market niche is large and strong and is made up largely of those whose feet do not fit the standard available sizes. I get the wide feet/narrow heel, extra long and narrow, extra small and short, etc. These people are dedicated hikers and so grateful to get something they can be comfortable wearing for the first time in their lives. I really feel for them, as my feet fall into that category, as well.

[Charlie Van Gorkom]

The Unforgiven, What can I say? Would YOU like to wear booties made by an elf? Besides, I enjoy having a backlog of orders--gives me a sense of security, like I might be able to eat next month! To get here, I did years of the starving artist thing, preferring freedom and self-employment to anything else. I was born an artist, which makes me a poor fit in the corporate world!

[Chief Joseph]

Hey don't knock the elves. I think {like me} they are union workers and take pride in their work. I mentioned to an old friend of mine today who had a boot/shoe repair business that I read about these $1600 boots. His response was, "if they are comfortable then they are easily worth it". I for one am happy that I have average feet. Right now I am into ultralight but I am in the market for some crampon compatible all-leather boots. $1600? Not quite that serious,......yet.

[Charlie Van Gorkom]

Unforgiven, sounds like you have wise friends in high places!! You can be thankful your feet are average!

[jenjen]