[Randito]

Highly visited locations like Mt Whitney, Camp Muir, Camp Shurman, etc. Strain some aspects of "Wilderness". An important value enumerated in the Wilderness Act of 1964 is "solitude". Clearly at these locations that value doesn't exist. I don't favor tighter quotas as a way of reducing usage to within the "biocapacity" of the location to compost human poo. I'd favor allowing more flexibility to the NPS and USFS for having infrastructure to support the number of users. Either that or enforce proper blue bag usage using technology like this http://www.pooprintswest.com/ Getting your permit would involve a DNA swab and hefty fines for failing to "pack it all out"

[NacMacFeegle]

backcountry toilets > blue bags I can't imagine that swabbing everyone for DNA would be remotely affordable for the park service. With DNA swabs I suspect that enforcement would be a difficult task indeed. Backcountry toilets are relatively cheap, and you don't have to threaten people to get them to use a toilet.

[Ski]

[graywolf]

[Alpendave]

[trestle]

cefire, heard enough yet?

[Ski]

[Ski]

one further note for your consideration - something I posted in another thread a few years back: "It was noted by those knowledgeable about NPS history that The Leopold Report, one of the most important guidance documents ever written for the NPS, which has heavily influenced the Service's thinking and policy development since 1965, suggests that national parks should be maintained as "vignettes of primitive America." This implies a condition coincident with that which Native Americans would have caused, rather than a condition where no human had affected the landscape." * * "A New Beginning for Equity & Understanding Through National Parks and Traditionally Associated American Indian Tribes" Yurok Indian Reservation, Klamath, California Oct. 7-9, 2003 - ^ now go back and re-read that and replace "Native Americans" with "European Americans". Olympic National Park was established in 1938.

[John Morrow]

I am assuming that all engaged in this discussion are both familiar with and referencing the 1964 Wilderness Act. For anyone reading who is less familiar with the Act itself, here is the complete text: http://www.wilderness.net/nwps/legisact

[RodF]

[Ski]

[RodF]

Preservation Groups Unite to Support Historic Structures in Olympic National Park Washington (June 15, 2016) — National, state and local preservation groups have recently joined together to support the preservation of historic structures in Olympic National Park, a vast wilderness comprised of glacier-capped mountains, rain forests, and over 70 miles of Pacific coastline. Recently, the United States District Court for the Western District of Washington ruled in favor of the National Trust for Historic Preservation, Washington Trust for Historic Preservation and the Friends of Olympic National Park joining litigation in support of the National Park Service's authority to maintain the historic structures of Olympic National Park. Following are statements from the preservation groups: Brian Turner, senior field officer and attorney, National Trust for Historic Preservation: "The precious few cabins, trail shelters and other rustic structures that remain within the Olympic Wilderness provide an unobtrusive complement to the park's natural beauty. They enrich visitors' experience and provide a safe spot for backpackers of all ages to seek shelter during a storm, or to gaze upon the park's stunning beauty. These structures also serve as a tangible link to the early history of the park, and the distinctive craftsmanship of that era. "In joining this lawsuit, we are asking the court to affirm the National Park Service's authority to maintain and manage Olympic's historic structures in accordance with the National Historic Preservation Act and the Wilderness Act. These two laws are in the public interest and can and should be used in concert to guide the stewardship of all wilderness areas in the public domain, to ensure that future generations are able to experience the wealth of America's natural and structural historic treasures." Chris Moore, executive director, Washington Trust for Historic Preservation: "Olympic National Park is one of the most dramatic landscapes in Washington State. Amid its towering peaks and glacial fields are the last remnants of the places that led to the creation of the Park itself. The historic resources remaining in the backcountry remind Washingtonians of the legacy of the pioneering conservationists who made this cherished park a reality." Rod Farlee, vice-president, Friends of Olympic National Park: "The shelters and cabin at the heart of this lawsuit embody the history of Olympic National Park's trail system. They were built to support the original construction and maintenance of the trails, which led to widespread appreciation of the beauty and natural resources of the Olympics. We are joining this lawsuit to send a strong message of support to Park staff for their ongoing efforts to preserve this important part of the region's legacy." About the Historic Structures of Olympic National Park These shelters, including those built by the Civilian Conservation Corps during the Great Depression, are closely intertwined with the history of Olympic National Park itself. Originally constructed to support the creation and maintenance of trails in the early 20th century and to detect and fight forest fires, they enhanced recreational use and opened up the park to the public in a way never before possible. Published accounts of visitors who stayed in these shelters led to widespread appreciation of the beauty of the Olympics, and ultimately to its preservation by U.S. Congress in 1938 as a national park and in 1988 as a wilderness. Only 18 of the original 90 shelters in Olympic Wilderness remain today. They are all eligible for or listed on the National Register of Historic Places. The National Park Service should be encouraged to continue the ongoing maintenance of those remaining to ensure that the Park's historic shelter system remains intact for all future visitors. About the Lawsuit Montana-based Wilderness Watch has sued the National Park Service, seeking the court-ordered removal of four trail shelters and a cabin from the park's wilderness areas. But the preservation groups supporting NPS believe these rustic log shelters are in keeping with the primitive beauty of the park's backcountry, visited by 40,000 annually. The preservation groups are represented pro bono by Elaine L. Spencer and David O. Bechtold of Miller Nash Graham & Dunn LLP. About the Specific Structures at Risk

Canyon Creek Shelter

Elk Lake Shelter

Botten Cabin

Canyon Creek Shelter constructed by the Civilian Conservation Corps in 1939 overlooking Sol Duc Falls. This is a T-shaped, one-story log building with a wood-shaked, cross-gabled roof set on a concrete foundation. This shelter is the only CCC-built shelter remaining in the Park of three built. It was listed on the National Register in April 2007 for its architectural significance and association with the CCC. Elk Lake Shelter, 15 trail miles up the Hoh River, is a three-sided 14' x 14' log shelter with open front. Shelters at Elk Lake have offered refuge to climbers approaching Mt. Olympus since 1927. This shelter, a replacement built in 1963, represents the last variation of shelter design in the Park. Wilder Shelter, 21 trail miles up the Elwha River, is a 12' x 12' three-sided solid log structure built in 1951 to accommodate backcountry visitors. It was listed on the National Register in 2008. Botten Cabin, near Wilder, is an 11' x 17' log cabin with gabled roof built in 1928 featuring fine,hand-crafted, dovetail-notched corners. The cabin is actively used as an emergency shelter. It was listed on the National Register in April of 2007 for its architectural significance and association with recreational history in the park. Bear Camp Shelter is a three-sided solid log structure 12'x16' deep built in 1952. It is 16 trail miles up the Dosewallips River. About the National Trust for Historic Preservation The National Trust for Historic Preservation, a privately funded nonprofit organization, works to save America's historic places. SavingPlaces.org | @savingplaces About the Washington Trust for Historic Preservation Established in 1976, the Washington Trust for Historic Preservation preserves Washington's historic places through advocacy, education,collaboration, and stewardship. PreserveWA.org | @preservewa About Friends of Olympic National Park Formed in 2001 with the mission of supporting Olympic National Park in preserving the Park's natural, cultural and recreational resources for the benefit of present and future generations. FriendsONP.org

[Ski]

thanks Rod. you know... I have to wonder.... if this "Wilderness Watch" outfit is so concerned about protecting "wilderness values" and that elusive "wilderness experience", why don't they focus their energies and attention on something which really puts a damper on my "wilderness experience" and do something about the US Navy fighter jets flying over ONP all afternoon?

[RodF]

"Preservation groups fight lawsuit to axe historic Olympic National Park shelters" - Seattle PI "The Montana-based Wilderness Watch, thwarted in its bid to remove a lookout in the North Cascades, is going to court seeking to axe four historic trail shelters and a cabin from the backcountry of Olympic National Park." "Group's lawsuit threatens Wilderness Act it seeks to protect" - Everett Herald "Battles over rustic shelters only divert time and resources that instead could be used to lobby for passage of the Wild Olympics bill. More importantly, such rigid demands risk the loss of public support for the protections offered by the Wilderness Act." "Lawsuit underway this week targets aging Olympic National Park buildings" - Peninsula Daily News, Tri-City Herald, St. Louis Post Dispatch, Washington Times, Lewiston Tribune, Seattle Daily Journal of Commerce "Shelters can save lives in our parks" - Kitsap Sun "Shelters are certain to save a few more, if park officials are allowed to restore and maintain them." "Preservation Groups Unite to Support Historic Structures in Olympic National Park" - KBKW, Washington Dept. Archaeology & Historic Preservation, Washington Trust for Historic Preservation, National Trust for Historic Preservation "Exceptions ruin the entire idea" - Everett Herald letter "Wilderness structures part of our history" - Everett Herald op-ed and letter "Like Green Mountain Lookout, these trail shelters are listed on the National Register of Historic Places. Wanton destruction of history, the temples in Palmyra by ISIS or the Buddhas of Bamiyan by the Taliban, is denounced across the civilized world. We cannot stand by while ideologues destroy our few surviving wilderness historic sites here in Northwest."

[cefire]